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Subject: How do you interpret "Smoke"? rss

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Emil Vincent Alonzo
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Another question that I had that i wanted to ask you guys about:

Smoke Pot - Its a Special Action (no damage) the Flingers have that had Burst 1 (so its an AoE) and places "Smoke" on all squares in the affected area.

1) Since its an AoE it has to have a target right? What im trying to figure out is if its supposed to be a friendly target or not (which is already a bigger discussion on another thread about AoE's and who can be targeted) because...

2) Does smoke block LoS for EVERYONE?

If its ruled: "this is a friendly AoE and friendly AoEs can only aimed at friendlies" would targeting the Flinger who used it block his own Missle 6 attacks or not (again, depending on if friendlies are affected by friendlie AoE ACTIONS... it only talks about attacks).

If its ruled: "this is a negative status effect AoE... go fling it only at enemy models" Then the models not only get smoke, they also get Stealth so I dont think that's how its supposed to go.

3) For Smoke Pot, it basically covers a 3x3 square cuz of Burst 1... I get that everyone gets Stealth who stand in those 9 squares... but for instance if you are standing right on the edge are you also protected by Smoke's LoS block? I kind of feel like the answer is no just because what would be the point of Stealth if you cant even target them cuz the Smoke is blocking LoS anyway.


Meh, these questions got a little muddled, but I think you guys get the idea. Does smoke block all LoS? Is it supposed to be used on the monsters or the Heroes? If you are standing on the edge of the smoke cloud does it still block LoS or just gives stealth?


Just trying to gather ammo for my next game as I know there will be a few people who will want hash this out when we play...
 
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Emil Vincent Alonzo
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Bump...

Guess we dont have any smokers in the house? O_O?
 
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Matt Barnes
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Being a special action, it seems like it would be meant to be used on your own guys, as it doesn't do damage to them. But I guess, really, you could do it on either. It seems to be more useful to provide your own units cover than the enemies.

I would need to read the effect again to really say, but I am sure it is to provide your units with cover in the open against ranged attacks.
 
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Emil Vincent Alonzo
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MattVid wrote:
Being a special action, it seems like it would be meant to be used on your own guys, as it doesn't do damage to them. But I guess, really, you could do it on either. It seems to be more useful to provide your own units cover than the enemies.

I would need to read the effect again to really say, but I am sure it is to provide your units with cover in the open against ranged attacks.


Thanks MattVid. Yeh I can totally see it going either way... its hard because for instance there are Special Attacks that go against enemies (I think there is an example in the book of one that does fire in a wave) but I guess the main thing is whether or not it blocks sight for just enemies or everyone as the people I played with were voting for the latter and I was stuck not being able to hot pot with my other Flinger =(.

The exact wording from the Rogue card is:

Smoke: Squares affected by Smoke block line of sight. Models within a square affected by Smoke are considered to have Stealth.

So... in this case:



Flinger one Smoke Pots on himself, with Burst 1 covering all the adjacent squares with smoke.

Now if the Ranger wants to make a Missile attack on the original Flinger she cant right since the Smoke blocks her line of sight?

If the Ranger wanted to target Flinger2, since the space he is in is a square with Smoke, is it still out of line of site. I wasnt sure if people were playing it like the smoke was a "wall" (ha! I imagined at fat kobold whose stomach is so fat it sticks out of the end for someome to target) or if its more a "you're standing in a space that has Smoke, you cant be LoS targeted".

The only reason I ask is because if models at the edge (aka the fat kobolds) are totally blocked from LoS... whats the point of them having Stealth too? =/

EDIT: And so if Flinger2 wanted to Missile the Ranger could he? Can Flinger2 target the Druid or is the Smoke protecting him as well?


So I guess I would play it "if you are behind a space with Smoke its like being behind a wall, you cant get targeted... if you are standing at the edge still in the Smoke, you can get targeted but you have Stealth.

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Matt Barnes
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With your picture up there, I would probably say that no ranged attacks can happen, as if you are "in the smoke" you would be covered by it.

And I interpret smoke to block LoS for everyone. Unless there is some smoke-vision goggles as a loot card or something
 
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Emil Vincent Alonzo
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MattVid wrote:
With your picture up there, I would probably say that no ranged attacks can happen, as if you are "in the smoke" you would be covered by it.

And I interpret smoke to block LoS for everyone. Unless there is some smoke-vision goggles as a loot card or something


See! Thats TOTALLY how I want to read it... but if both those points are true then whats the point of giving anyone in Smoke squares "Stealth"? You'd never get to use it?


The thing that messes me up about the "smoke blocks everyone" is the fact that there are other things like the Mages waves that only effect the monsters. Smoke blocking all totally makes sense to me, but I guess I just need them to formally release that FAQ they've been promising us already.
 
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Matt Barnes
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roboraygun wrote:
See! Thats TOTALLY how I want to read it... but if both those points are true then whats the point of giving anyone in Smoke squares "Stealth"? You'd never get to use it?


The thing that messes me up about the "smoke blocks everyone" is the fact that there are other things like the Mages waves that only effect the monsters. Smoke blocking all totally makes sense to me, but I guess I just need them to formally release that FAQ they've been promising us already.

I think the only times I have used Smoke, as Consul, was to block a spawn point and the minions around it from ranged attacks as the heroes moved up to the spawn point. A delay of one turn means that you can get another spawn of monsters to mob all over them once they get there.

Also, if you were in the smoke, you could move out of it and attack and then back in? So you could pop out with your Flinger(s), shoot, and move back in the smoke? Stealth would remain active until their following activation? As they model would start "in" the smoke, and it would keep the buff even if it left? It is definitely confusing.

How long does the "smoke cloud" stay "in play"? Either way, it needs a much more in depth description than what we currently have
 
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Kaiwen Zhang
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i think monsters on the outer edge of the smoke screen can be targeted, but they have stealth.

think about it: LOS is symmetrical in this game. If I'm a monster at the edge of the smoke screen, I can technically draw line from me to an open enemy without being blocked, since I'm drawing the line from the edge of my square.

Likewise, it is sufficient for an enemy to draw a line up to the edge of my smoked tile, but not crossing.

otherwise, I think smoke pot is too strong against ranged attackers... you could smoke a spawn point every turn and only worry about melee...
 
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P. Brick
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How is everyone keeping track of which squares are smoked? In larger games, it seems pretty difficult to remember. (Along with which auras were/weren't activated.)
 
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Rob Campbell
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Yes,we play it as was mentioned above:

Units at the edge of smoke can be targeted but have stealth. If LOS would pass through a different tile with Smoke first than there is no LOS.


To keep track of it we put a counter on the board at the location where the burst happened, until the beginning of the flinger who caused the smoke's next activation. It's a burst 1 so it's all squares touching the counter (plus the counter square).


-VK
 
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Anthony Czerwonka
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The way I think it should be played is everything in the Smoke area cannot be targeted, middle or edge... it doesn't mean it 'right on the edge' literally, it can be on the edge and still cant be seen too.. ex. each square is not as tiny as one may think it can be interpeted (in real life) each map square as an 6'x6' or 8'x8' square foot of square. So if you were standing somewher in that square 'towards the middle' eventhough you are on the 'edge' of so square, you still are not going to be seen.

Also I think it should be played where you cant see past the Smoke either.. ie. if the ranger wanted to attack the druid in said ex above... there will be no line of sight. But I think the game is played where the ranger can target the druid.

Another way is to target something just outside the smoke with a wave of fire of something, thus having the wave of fire enter into the smoke in turn 'hitting' some of the people inside. This is where the 'Stealth' part comes into effect.
 
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Exar Kun
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Curfew wrote:
The way I think it should be played is everything in the Smoke area cannot be targeted, middle or edge...


That's exactly the point. As it can't be targeted, anything that is inside Smoke doesn't need Stealth (as Stealth works when a mini is targeted by as ranged effect)


Curfew wrote:

Another way is to target something just outside the smoke with a wave of fire of something, thus having the wave of fire enter into the smoke in turn 'hitting' some of the people inside. This is where the 'Stealth' part comes into effect.


Waves do not Target. They just affect anything within their area. Thus Stealth does not come into effect
 
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The way I've been playing it is this:

You don't have to target a particular model for AOE abilities or attacks. So you can just have your flinger toss smoke in an empty hallway. If a model is in any smoke space, it gets stealth. If a model is not in a smoke space, but the LOS from a ranged attack travels though a smoke space, then the LOS is blocked. I also rule that smoke, no matter when it's thrown during the round, goes away at the beginning of the next round.
 
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Jon McClay
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This is very helpful.

The last game I played, I too was confused about having Line of Sight blocked AND getting stealth. It doesn't really make sense.

In the future I will play that if you are in the smoke, then you are protected from ranged attacks.

The only use I can see for stealth is maybe the Ranger's Sparkle Burst being shot just outside of the smoke on a targeted enemy (outside the smoke) and having the burst be an attack that they use stealth to block against.

If I were to think thematically it makes sense that they are able to move very quick with great agility to avoid being hit...

 
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Fernando Robert Yu
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Jon_meadowbrook wrote:
This is very helpful.

The last game I played, I too was confused about having Line of Sight blocked AND getting stealth. It doesn't really make sense.

In the future I will play that if you are in the smoke, then you are protected from ranged attacks.

The only use I can see for stealth is maybe the Ranger's Sparkle Burst being shot just outside of the smoke on a targeted enemy (outside the smoke) and having the burst be an attack that they use stealth to block against.

If I were to think thematically it makes sense that they are able to move very quick with great agility to avoid being hit...



if you are at the edge square of an area with smoke, you get stealth, but los is not blocked to you since there is no other smoke counter in the way. So models in the edge of a smoke area can be shot if the range is enough after the stealth roll, and of course can also shoot out.
 
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Billy Kumohara
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Professor Brick wrote:
How is everyone keeping track of which squares are smoked? In larger games, it seems pretty difficult to remember. (Along with which auras were/weren't activated.)

I've been using resource markers from Power Grid to track auras, actually.
 
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