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Subject: I need a powder that fuses solid when treated (heated?) rss

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Jonathan "Gorno" Fashena
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Laser printer toner is an idea, but ultra-messy... In my quest for easy PnP card models, it occurs to me that this is what I need. I can't deal with the hassle of buying sheet styrene (or other substrate), gluing a face to it, and cutting the uncooperative plastic (or chipboard, etc.) to smoothly match an intricate shape. With a powder like this, I could print and (relatively) easily cut out a panel on cardstock, mount it flat (face-down) on a little stand, sprinkle the powder on it, level it, then treat, e.g., bake, it into a firm(-ish) panel. I've tried a similar process with liquid resin, but it doesn't stay put like a powder would, and getting a consistently thin thickness, even in a confined pool, is near-impossible.

Gorno
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The root of all evil ...but you can call me cookie.
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Kind of expensive but they use products like you are talking about in scrapbooking all the time.

http://www.google.com/search?q=embossing+powder&ie=utf-8&oe=...:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#q=embossing+powder&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=tw8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvns&source=univ&tbm=shop&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=ag_gTtPeLuri2AW977COBQ&ved=0CIMBEK0E&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=2c8694c936a4e7a7&biw=1329&bih=740
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You could try printing directly onto plastic, cutting to shape, then heating to solidify.

http://www.goestores.com/catalog.aspx?storename=shrinkydinks...
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Celina
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What I think Gorno's basement looks like, based on his posts:

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Tim M-L
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I don't understand quite what you are trying to do- is the end result you want somehow different from putting paint through your stencil?
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Alex Vandertol
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or:

If your goal is chipboard models, this is what I'm considering.
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Nick Hayes
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What you're describing sounds a lot like the laser sintering method used in some additive manufacturing or 3D printing applications. It's not something you could do yourself though, even if you had the powder available, because of the high temperatures required to fuse the powder to itself.

Maybe finding a company that produces the correct card stock would be easier.
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Jonathan "Gorno" Fashena
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Thanks for the ideas, guys! The heavy cutters certainly are nice, if too expensive (although they must be less than a laser cutter) -- the old Cri-cut machines couldn't handle heavy gauge stuff. I have to look into embossing powder, I wonder how thick a layer one can create at one pass? Shrinky-dinks have potential, but there's a lot of waste and they don't shrink exactly the same in both axes.

We do have a great workshop , but most of my crafting is done sitting in bed. Not surprisingly, I tend to get burns on my legs from the soldering iron, hot glue gun, etc.. (Tip -- skin lotion is good at removing epoxy resin from skin!) As for equipment, since I'm more a theoretical than practical crafter, I avoid buying hobby-specific tools, instead trying to work with kitchen supplies and random hardware!

timlillig wrote:
I don't understand quite what you are trying to do- is the end result you want somehow different from putting paint through your stencil?
I want a resulting layer of "paint" that's 2 1 mm thick, like a credit card. These are card models, as used in various games:
Here, I'm discarding the "stencil," being interested in the printed form inside, which I want to thicken and make rigid. You have inspired me! -- volumetric paint (as used on T-shirts) or some similar solidifying foam (like Good Stuff's low-expansion cousin)... I can make an "ice-cream sandwich" between the printed face panels and trim the soft edges later. The filling doesn't have to be rigid -- the two layers of cardstock provide rigidity so long as the filling provides some in-compressibility.

Gorno
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The neutral evil villain known as
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Foam egg carton or meat tray? easy to cut, would hold glue, available. Essentially you'd be making foamcore.
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Jonathan "Gorno" Fashena
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Phil of Mars wrote:
Foam egg carton or meat tray? easy to cut, would hold glue, available. Essentially you'd be making foamcore.
Exactly the idea! (Or at least the ice-cream sandwich idea would make thin, custom-shaped foamcore.) Foamcore itself is too thick. I'm trying this with silly string right now... I suppose I could try Sculpy (edit: Green stuff may be a better bet -- I think it would roll smoother and cure stronger), but that doesn't stick to paper on its own and a powder would make it super-easy to duplicate the shape of the facing (leaving aside the angle of repose) and might be more rigid.

Gorno
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There is stuff called magic sculp. It is God's gift to man. It is essentially a 2-part epoxy putty like plumber's putty, that is nice enough for sculptors to use. It feathers with water and cures ROCK hard. It's a little expensive, but I get it at wasco taxidermy. It sticks to EVERYTHING. I used some to fix my shower, and to sculpt on a glass. The glass broke and I thought I'd pry of my sculpt and glue it to another glass. I had to GRIND THE GLASS OFF the magic sculp. If you moisten a roller, you could roll it thin. The beauty is it CURES, not bakes. so you can stick it to paper, cardstock, or whatever. You only have an hour or so before it starts to get crumbly tho, so work in small doses, and fast.
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Jonathan "Gorno" Fashena
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Phil of Mars wrote:
There is stuff called magic sculpt. It is God's gift to man. It is essentially a 2-part epoxy putty like plumber's putty, that is nice enough for sculptors to use. It feathers with water and cures ROCK hard.
Neat! I've been tempted to buy that similar epoxy repair putty the advertise on TV (it's under $10 a pack) and this gives me the excuse to get some. Of course, now I'm thinking, hmmm, could I make my own by combining Fimo and binary epoxy? Dangerous thoughts. Messy, dangerous thoughts... (actually probably pretty safe, as Fimo is (mostly) just ground-up PVC).

Gorno
 
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Nick Hayes
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Phil of Mars wrote:
There is stuff called magic sculp. It is God's gift to man.

I use Magic Sculpt a lot in toy design. It is amazing stuff. When it hardens, it's somewhere between a PVC pipe and standard dice. In its natural form it's white, but it takes primer very well and any kind of paint. Because it carves, sands, and drills beautifully, it's perfect for sculptural projects.
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johngorno wrote:
could I make my own by combining Fimo and binary epoxy? Dangerous thoughts. Messy, dangerous thoughts... (actually probably pretty safe, as Fimo is (mostly) just ground-up PVC).

Gorno



the beauty is, it CURES and you don't have to bake it. if you use fimo, you'll have to bake it and who knows what will happen in the oven.
That's why it's great for toys and such. You just modify existing toys and figures with it. It's like green stuff, but rigid and not near as sticky and wonky to work with.
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Derry Salewski
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Sugar.
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Jonathan "Gorno" Fashena
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Phil of Mars wrote:
if you [mix binary epoxy with] fimo, you'll have to bake it and who knows what will happen in the oven.
Yeah, epoxy in the oven would be all kinds of BAD! zombie My notion was to use Fimo as just a filler putty, with the epoxy as the binder. Regular plasticine modeling clay might be as good a filler, but it might get too soft when mixed with the gooey epoxy to hold crisp cuts. Fast epoxy might even get hot enough to fuse the Fimo, or melt the plasticine, respectively. Or the fimo and epoxy might interfere with each other's chemical activity.

I bought some white "plastic" binary epoxy putty at Home Depot for just $5 -- I haven't tried it yet but it says it cures slowly enough to sculpt, unlike plumber's putty, which apparently get too hot to handle in two minutes. The plumber's putty (also sold in Walmart auto sections) has steel in it... maybe I'll use that if I want to make throwing stars! ninja

scifiantihero wrote:
Sugar.
I considered that, but it's too brittle and liquifies when heated, rather than simply fusing, so it would drip off the panel. I may play with it out of curiosity, though.

Gorno
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Jonathan "Gorno" Fashena
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Some preliminary results for sandwich fillings:

Low-expansion insulating foam -- messy and useless!

Silly string -- interesting... produces a flexible bubbly plastic, doesn't stay stuck to paper by its own adhesion.

Sculpy bake clay -- slices cleanly in preparation but doesn't stay stuck to paper by its own adhesion, I'm not quite satisfied with the strength for the most delicate (2 mm wide) projections, which can easily snap... adhesive spray isn't strong enough, maybe if the paper were epoxied on, the composite might be sufficiently strong, but that would affect the paper and is less convenient than I want it to be.

KwikPlastik binary epoxy putty -- not bad... a bit too gummy for perfectly clean slicing during preparation, cures to a medium-firm rubber with some internal voids, paper sticks well, but can be peeled off. I think flexibility is actually a good quality for a card model, as they will be less inclined to break, and tight pieces can be pushed into slots they wouldn't otherwise fit, and will stay there. However, it make it easy for the edges of the paper to start peeling, and when peeled off, residues remains stuck. Again, epoxying paper on after curing might produce a good result.


"Oh all ye merry gentlemen who own some Magic Sculpt,
Please do for me an experiment and here post your results.
I wish to know if to paper it will firmly adhere.
But even in smallest quantity, it's just too dear. just too dear.

This project makes me curious, but not enough to pay,
You need only waste a small amount, a morsel you could say,
Rolled out as thin as a credit card, or equally, chipboard,
And trimmed an eighth-inch wide, and no more, and no more.

An inch of length in the flattened shape will tell me all I need,
Do the edges of the uncured Sculpt slice away neatly,
Without tugging at the rest -- its shape ruining?
And when it cures, how rigid is the thing? How rigid is the thing?

If the finished piece is twisted hard by its maker's hands,
Will the paper separate, or stick faithfully and be grand?
To those who do indulge this wish, I give my gratitude,
And a happy Christmas-time to all of you!
And a happy Christmas-time to all of you!"


Gorno
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Nick Hayes
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johngorno wrote:
[i]"Oh all ye merry gentlemen who own some Magic Sculpt,

How about I just send you some? It would be no problem at all.
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Jonathan "Gorno" Fashena
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Black Canyon wrote:
johngorno wrote:
"Oh all ye merry gentlemen who own some Magic Sculpt,
How about I just send you some? It would be no problem at all.
That would be awesome! I see that it comes in separate blocks instead of as a concentric cylinder of the two parts, like binary putty. Is Magic Sculp (by Wesco) the right stuff? Are there inferior products with a similar name to be wary of?

I'll give you my address. Thanks! But wait!! I just turned up an eBay offer of a 2 oz. sample size for $8 (including shipping), which meets my frugality standards -- it sounds awesome even if it won't work for this project, so I think I'll buy it, if it's the product you use. Darn, Yahoo won't let me link to the listing! Waah! I can't even link to the store page! That's bad business! Ok, with quotation marks added, www."ebay".com/itm/M00056-MOREZMORE-Try-Magic-Sculp-Sculpt-Epoxy-WHITE-2oz-/200369727770

Anyway, thanks for the very generous offer!!

Gorno
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Nick Hayes
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Yes, that ebay page shows the right stuff. Be sure to let us know what you think of it.
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Black Canyon wrote:
johngorno wrote:
[i]"Oh all ye merry gentlemen who own some Magic Sculpt,

How about I just send you some? It would be no problem at all.


I would send you a bit too, but looks like you have it covered. Honestly, you'll find uses for it even if this doesn't work out for your immediate needs... you sound like an experimenter and it'll change your life. I've used it to fix action figures, my shower, my car, a mug handle, sculpting etc.
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pure silver can easily be sintered (w/ the right equipment, heh heh).

Also:
sand powder
 
glass
clay powder
 
ceramics
and MORE! http://www.shapeways.com/materials/ (check out options for steel, including finishing with pure gold.)
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