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Subject: Instalynch: Does it work? (not a game) rss

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Instalynch seems to be turning up in games recently. For those who haven't played in such a game, the idea is that lynch doesn't happen at a set time, but rather happens when 50% (or so) of the currently living players are all voting on the same person.

I see two Instalynch games going on right now. One of them started on Monday, November 28th (11 days ago) and is currently still on Day 2. The other one has been in a 3-man finale for FIFTEEN DAYS, because the remaining non-nightfalled player hasn't made a decision yet.

Are either of these situations fun? Do people enjoy still being on D2 after a week and a half of play? I know that some forums play werewolf games on a much longer-term schedule than we do, and those games can certainly have days that go on for that amount of time or more.

Does Instalynch work the way it's currently defined, or does it need to have a cap of some kind? For example, a game that is Instalynch but after 72 hours, dusk is called and a normal lynch is done based on the current voting?

What do you think?



Personal opinion: I think it needs a time cap of some kind, to force players to either make a decision or have one made for them.
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I believe the reason behind insta-lynch is to have some sort of consensus and not have a last minute vote manipulation at an artificial deadline.

I agree that long times of nothing happening is not productive, and the game needs to move forward, but there is a difference between a long-held stalemate and a somewhat dynamic jockeying for lead position. 15 days isn't very instant...

Perhaps a diminishing definition of what a consensus means, if 24 hours pass without any changes to the votes held be the top two (or three) leaders then the number required to lynch is reduced by 1?
This forces people to make a decision on the votes on the leaders.

The only issue with this suggestion, or what Nykkel suggests is the timing of the change. What time is it fair to re-adjust the lynch parameters.
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In my brief browsing of other forums that tend to prefer instalynch, I've noticed the average age tends to be lower than here on BGG, and I would suspect that long days are less of a problem for that reason. For example, high-school/college age (ie, my age) seems to be the norm at a lot of sites, but here it seems like most people are upper 20s, lower 30s. Just my impression.

I don't mind waiting if there's participation from everyone, but if things stagnate I think the mod should step in at some point.
 
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mafiascum didn't have deadlines long ago when I used to play there, but I see they do now. Looks like they have a 3 week limit for each day phase in smallish games, with a possibility of extension (e.g. when a player is being replaced).

If a day ends without a majority lynch, it's "no lynch".

That's how I would do it here, too, if I modded such a game. I think a one-week deadline would be a reasonable starting point.
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I kind of like dcorrin's rolling-deadline suggestion. 24 hours with no vote changes means that stuff really has stagnated, and it's time to move on. Whether that means no lynch, or lynch the top candidate could be pre-decided at game setup.
 
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GrimJester wrote:
mafiascum didn't have deadlines long ago when I used to play there, but I see they do now. Looks like they have a 3 week limit for each day phase in smallish games, with a possibility of extension (e.g. when a player is being replaced).

If a day ends without a majority lynch, it's "no lynch".

That's how I would do it here, too, if I modded such a game. I think a one-week deadline would be a reasonable starting point.


I like the no lynch at the end of the day-that incentivizes the village to not miss their kill.

i don't think I would enjoy playing in a game that goes on like that. i get antsy if D1 is more than 2 days. It feels like it's time to move on at that point. Forward motion. I want forward motion.
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miraria wrote:
GrimJester wrote:
mafiascum didn't have deadlines long ago when I used to play there, but I see they do now. Looks like they have a 3 week limit for each day phase in smallish games, with a possibility of extension (e.g. when a player is being replaced).

If a day ends without a majority lynch, it's "no lynch".

That's how I would do it here, too, if I modded such a game. I think a one-week deadline would be a reasonable starting point.


I like the no lynch at the end of the day-that incentivizes the village to not miss their kill.

i don't think I would enjoy playing in a game that goes on like that. i get antsy if D1 is more than 2 days. It feels like it's time to move on at that point. Forward motion. I want forward motion.


of course, it could incentivize evil to not vote people as it goes further. i don't know. all i know, NOT a fan of long days
 
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This all gives me some ideas for some roles based around instalynch.

Mayor - Can set a lynch time X hours away that gets announced publicly.

Rabblerouser - Can call for the immediate execution of the lynch leader as long as everyone is voting.

Councilman - Can reduce the number of votes needed to instalynch

Well-liked(good or evil) - requires an extra vote to instalynch
It's kinda like a semi tough.

Also double vote powers and other vote manipulation powers could be lots of fun(or FUD) in an instalynch type game.
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Nykkel wrote:
Instalynch seems to be turning up in games recently. For those who haven't played in such a game, the idea is that lynch doesn't happen at a set time, but rather happens when 50% (or so) of the currently living players are all voting on the same person.

Personal opinion: I think it needs a time cap of some kind, to force players to either make a decision or have one made for them.


I would answer this by saying that we used instalynch for the first handful of games here on BGG - the first dozen or so. Around game 15 it shifted to being the current day schedules, and it's stayed that way for most of the next, oh, 1400 games. Not because suddenly the other was banned but it was clear for the way the players play here it was simply better, even long before Cassy existed.

I much prefer the current method. The current method also helps push the post count forward - without a time limit people can say "Oh I'll get to that one later" and the game can stagnate. I could see an instalynch game with some sort of deadline added (which is in essence the way a F2F game is often played. One interesting way to do it might be to have a time limit that, if reached, sends it to "sudden death" - everyone votes, in Cassy, privately, for someone to lynch, and the result (by plurality) is announced but no vote totals are given. To make it more interesting one could make it such that the current lynch leaders prior to sudden death are not eligible, or some other machinations (like special roles that are immune to sudden death or something).
 
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To answer "Does instalynch work?" means you need to define it's purpose.

I think the one thing instalynch does very well is it allows players to play a game at a slower pace. I don't have to worry about logging in every day to an instalynch game, or making a lynch time. I think if we changed the game-type name to "leisurely play lynch" it may be more accurate. Normally I try to hold myself to 2 games at a time, and even then, to limit their complexity - I think that I'll count instalynch games as half, at most, towards my game total.

So while they might not produce the fastest-paced games, they may allow players who can't commit to specific game times, or every weekday, to play more WW.

I certainly wouldn't be against an upper-bound on time, though. It doesn't even have to be a reasonable/presing upper-bound - something like "every week, reduce the number of players needed to cause lynch by one" doesn't feel like it will cause undue time pressure, but will ensure termination.
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I liked the idea of experimenting with the instalynch games that are running. It's been a good experience but I definitely prefer regular lynch. The instalynch 11 that is still in limbo is the perfect illustration of the flaws of the instalynch system.
 
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In my F2F games, I play with an instalynch mechanic and a time frame of 1 minute per active player. So D1 for an 11-player game would have 11 minutes of time to decide on who to vote for. The players can speed that up by getting a majority on one player before the time is up. If they let it go to time, the player with the majority of votes at time gets lynched. In the case of a tie, it becomes a vote on the players tied for lynch lead, where one of them is voted on.

I bring this up because I think that kind of timing could work in these games as well. Instead of 1 minute per player, have it as one day. In a fifteen player game, that's fifteen days for D1, and when people die off, the time to make a decision falls too.

I personally love the idea of a longer game because of the level of participation I can get in without being glued to the computer. I can only participate during lunch hours and after work, so having plenty of time to make decisions/say what I'm thinking and knowing that decisions will not normally be rushed makes me get more involved.

I don't see why both styles of game can't be made available. Maybe have an hourglass symbol in Cassandra that represents how long the game is expected to take?
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No. It is ridiculous that a game can be hijacked for weeks on end by a single player refusing to make a decision. This thread title seems appropriate to me because at that point it no longer is a game.
 
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GrimJester wrote:
mafiascum didn't have deadlines long ago when I used to play there, but I see they do now. Looks like they have a 3 week limit for each day phase in smallish games, with a possibility of extension (e.g. when a player is being replaced).

If a day ends without a majority lynch, it's "no lynch".

That's how I would do it here, too, if I modded such a game. I think a one-week deadline would be a reasonable starting point.


I wanted to wait until the first game ends before discussing this but since you brought it up...

My first thought was to do it exactly like Grim suggests and have a sufficiently long time period and if there is no consensus in the time period, there is no lynch. That's pretty key IMO, otherwise it becomes like any other game here but with a really long day.

But, I'm not sure what an appropriately long day really should be. I think that as long as there is good discussion, the day could go on as long as the players wanted it to go. I actually do think there's room for games with limits and games without limits but players should know what they're getting into when they start.

To be honest, I'm kind of enjoying the game that Snaak is running because there is no time pressure. In the game I've been running, it's been interesting to see things from the perspective of the dead players and the "active" players as well.

I also think part of the problem is just that it's a different way of playing that a lot of people are used to so it takes some time getting used to driving to a consensus.
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I absolutely won't play in games that force a no lynch at a time limit. Just a personal preference. I hate no lynch and I won't be forced into it by a game mechanic.

I think the idea of a timeframe for stagnation causing a reduced vote total is ideal.

Alternatively I'm not opposed to instituting deadlines for lynch where it reverts to most votes and LHLV when the size of the game shrinks to a certain point. My argument for this is that once the game has shrunk to 5 or 3 players the amount of input necessary is significantly smaller, and the players are at this point holding the attention of everyone who can't play as well. This is simulated in F2F games by the crowds standing around the game as it shrinks and the mod and others prodding the game to "get it over with" already. I've never needed a time limit in F2F, but there are other factors that exist F2F that don't here.

I think it works just fine. I like the slow pace for the holidays. I can't commit the same quantity of time to game right now that I could before, so "instalynch" is perfect for me, and simulates things that I like a lot about F2F WW.
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I think future instalynch games should have both a limit for how long a day can last and a limit for how long the night period can last.

In Instalynch 11 we thankfully never had a problem with the latter, but it required every single player to lock orders for night to end. If just one villager forgot to do so, or happened to go absent, the game had the potential to be stuck in limbo during the night as well.

That was to avoid people being cleared due to not being around to put in a kill order and that type of thing. But a set night deadline at the same time every day wouldn't make it that different from a normal game in that regard either.
 
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