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Jonathan Hessler
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Here is the situation -

The Quest phase has started, there is an active location in play but nothing else in the staging area. The first encounter card drawn is Impassable Chasm. Impassable chasm sends the active location into the staging area. O.K.

Now for my question. Does the forced effect on The Hills of Emyn Muil adventure card take place? It states that if there are no location cards in the staging area, the first treachery card revealed gains surge. Well when the treachery card was drawn there was in fact no location cards in the staging area. But after the When Revealed effect of the treachery card has gone off, there IS a location card in the staging area.

So which immediate effect takes place first? Is there a surge or isn't there?

I somewhat remember something about having control over the order of immediate effects, but I don't know what to do here. I can argue both ways on this one. Any advice on how to play this would be appreciated.

I'm also sorry if this has been asked elsewhere.
 
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Tony Fanchi
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The Forced text timing is very ambiguous. It could be read three different ways that I can see:

1) The Forced text on the quest card is checked before you even draw the first card. If you draw a location card first in a multiplayer game and then draw a treachery, that treachery still gains surge.

2) The Forced text is checked immediately upon the drawing of the first treachery card, and would take precedence over the When Revealed text.

3) The Forced text triggers once all other text on the card has completed.

The FAQ says of Forced responses:
Quote:
(1.09) Forced Responses
Forced responses resolve immediately when their
specified prerequisite occurs, and before any response
effects that also can be triggered off the same
prerequisite.

Reading this, I guess I'm inclined to say that option 2 above is the intended reading. The Forced text triggers "immediately" when the "specified prerequisite" (i.e. the drawing of the first Treachery card) occurs.
 
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Jonathan Hessler
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Hmmmm the FAQ raises a good point.

At the moment I'm inclined to think that situation #2 takes place. I think that the treachery card gains surge. The way I see it The Hills of Emyn Muil's forced effect is a global game state which is already in effect, so Impassable Chasm gains surge as soon as it is drawn.

I think this makes sense. Thanks for the help.
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Rauli Kettunen
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I played with #2 option during my plays of EM, just seemed the most reasonable choice.
 
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Iain Benson
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The forced effect for Hills of Emyn Muil states
Quote:
if there are no location cards in the staging area, the first treachery card revealed gains surge


I would take it to mean the first treachery card revealed after this forced effect triggers gains surge, which on a normal quest phase would be the first treachery card drawn.

In the case of Impassable Chasm, when it is revealed there is an active location so it doesn't gain surge. It then triggers and moves the active location back to the staging area. Now there is no active location, but Impassable Chasm has been resolved, it is in the staging area and dealt with. If the next card drawn, however, is treachery it will gain surge.
 
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Tony Fanchi
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iain_benson wrote:
In the case of Impassable Chasm, when it is revealed there is an active location so it doesn't gain surge. It then triggers and moves the active location back to the staging area. Now there is no active location, but Impassable Chasm has been resolved, it is in the staging area and dealt with. If the next card drawn, however, is treachery it will gain surge.

I think you have it backwards, Iain. If there is an active location, it is not in the staging area, so it is in this circumstance that the first treachery card gains surge. If the location is moved back to the staging area by Impassable Chasm, only then is there a location in the staging area, and thus the uncertainty about whether Impassable Chasm should have surge.

I'm still inclined to think that Impassable Chasm gains surge before its When Revealed effect is triggered.
 
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Iain Benson
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AdmiralACF wrote:
iain_benson wrote:
In the case of Impassable Chasm, when it is revealed there is an active location so it doesn't gain surge. It then triggers and moves the active location back to the staging area. Now there is no active location, but Impassable Chasm has been resolved, it is in the staging area and dealt with. If the next card drawn, however, is treachery it will gain surge.

I think you have it backwards, Iain. If there is an active location, it is not in the staging area, so it is in this circumstance that the first treachery card gains surge. If the location is moved back to the staging area by Impassable Chasm, only then is there a location in the staging area, and thus the uncertainty about whether Impassable Chasm should have surge.

I'm still inclined to think that Impassable Chasm gains surge before its When Revealed effect is triggered.


Oops, yes, I misread Impassable Chasm. Reading it correctly then yes it must gain surge.
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