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Subject: Elder Sign: Catacombs rss

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♫ Eric Herman ♫
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An idea I had today and threw together. The idea being that when you have additional dice from completed adventures, it's as if you have some extra time or resources to devote to finding the way in to the catacombs. I have NO idea if this will really work... it may be way too hard as it is and there may need to be more incentive to complete the initial part other than the chance of a doom token. But anyway, subscribe to be notified of updates after I playtest...

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The Galaxy is Just Packed!
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Neat!
 
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Ordinary Evidence
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That is really cool
 
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Ivan Pawle
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REPEAL THE 8TH
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Great idea.
Verrry innnnteresting...
 
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Paul S
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Really nice idea.

My only concern is that the cards, for all their nice bonuses, are pretty tough; think I would find myself avoiding these Catacombs!

Might well help those who say ES is too easy, though.
 
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♫ Eric Herman ♫
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Beloch wrote:
Really nice idea.

My only concern is that the cards, for all their nice bonuses, are pretty tough; think I would find myself avoiding these Catacombs!

Might well help those who say ES is too easy, though.


Yeah, that's definitely one of the purposes; to add difficulty. I need to make it so you can't avoid it, though, otherwise there's no point for it. Originally, I had it so that any time you failed an adventure, if the die you rolled couldn't remove a marker from the rules sheet, a doom token was added, which was a much greater incentive to get working on that. But that also seemed too harsh, especially if you got dinged early on. Anyway, it needs work, no doubt.
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♫ Eric Herman ♫
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A different version; a little easier to complete, as most things don't need to be done sequentially. But with the more likely threat of doom tokens being added, so it makes this much more of a "must do." Still may be too hard or totally broken, but anyway...

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Mike Forrey
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Beloch wrote:
Really nice idea.

My only concern is that the cards, for all their nice bonuses, are pretty tough; think I would find myself avoiding these Catacombs!

Might well help those who say ES is too easy, though.


Unless you have the worst dice rolling luck ever the game is very easy to win. This looks a very interesting idea and I look forward to trying it out.
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Wade Nelson
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I really like this idea, both the original and the updated cards. The only issue I have with it is that it can be ignored. Right now there is an incentive to get into the catacombs, but I think it would be better if it were imperative to get into the catacombs. Maybe "If no progress has been made into the catacombs by midnight, a doom token is added to the doom track after resolving a new Mythos card." instead of a doom token for failing. That way you need to make progress in the Catacombs, but are less penalized for failing. I'm not sure how you'd tie that in thematically.

I like the Catacombs idea best as a mandatory difficulty increase. Something to add to the base game to make it harder. Right now it seems like a great idea that can either be used to make the game harder but can also be ignored.

Hope this helps, keep up the good work!

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♫ Eric Herman ♫
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Well, I just started to playtest the newer version, and abandoned it because it is way too hard as it is... Within the first round before midnight there were two failed adventures which added two doom tokens, which added two new monsters, etc. Against Cthulhu, forget about it. So that doesn't really work.

Wade, I like your idea about requiring some progress before each midnight... Back to the drawing board (Strange Eons) with that. Stay tuned.
 
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♫ Eric Herman ♫
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Here's what I'm gonna try for now...

"If no progress toward entering the catacombs is made on a player's turn, advance the clock twice at the end of their turn. If an investigator fails an adventure, in addition to advancing the clock twice, he must roll a green die and remove a corresponding marker from this sheet (if applicable). If any marker from a sequential group or combined group is removed, all markers from that group are removed. If all of the spaces are covered, the catacombs may be entered, and markers are no longer removed."
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Wade Nelson
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Have you managed to playtest the Catacombs yet? I'm thinking about printing this out when we get back from Xmas
 
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♫ Eric Herman ♫
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wadenels wrote:
Have you managed to playtest the Catacombs yet? I'm thinking about printing this out when we get back from Xmas


Hopefully today.
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♫ Eric Herman ♫
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Got a playtest in... 3p (Carolyn, Amanda and Gloria against Shub). I really enjoyed the aspect of having to come up with certain extra dice to work on the catacombs. But, as is the plague of this game for me, it was still too easy to win, completely aside from the catacombs... I did struggle in a good way to try to get to the last part of the catacombs (and didn't quite make it), but I easily won the game, anyway, with elder signs (Shub had, I think 7 doom tokens).

I think I need to find a way to encourage getting more quickly into the catacombs, as Wade suggests above. The possibility of a 4 elder sign adventure is nice, and the extra clock movement each time you don't make any progress is good, but I think in general I have to force the issue more, otherwise it's somewhat wasted. Or, another thought is that maybe you simply cannot win until/unless you get into the catacombs and finish the adventure there. So even if you hit the target of elder signs, the game still doesn't end if you haven't entered the catacombs. Hmm, yeah, that might be a simple way to do it.

Another issue is that when you fail an adventure and roll a die to see what is lost from your catacombs progress, if it ends up being one of the double things, or one of the sequential groups, it seems too harsh to lose all of the progress from that group. It is definitely not that easy to add the right things into the catacombs dice groups (I was really struggling to get some of those things), and it would seem too harsh to have the 1-2-3 or the terror/peril taken away after you may have finally achieved them.

It's close as it is... and I think it's going to be a really good variant. It just needs to cook a little more. I'll try it again with an adjustment or two and see how it goes.
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♫ Eric Herman ♫
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I think we may have a winner here...



Took me a while to get the wording right (well, "right" to my satisfaction, at least). Played a game and loved it. With the requirement that you must complete the catacombs in order to win, there is definitely the imperative to get in there and complete it (well, duh). I barely did it, needing the double Lore for the last thing... and the threat of losing something at that point if I failed an adventure was a great stress. What I really like about this is that it can force you to buy items and even Clues to help you have a better chance of finishing off the catacombs tasks, which is definitely tricky. I almost never use the Entrance at all, otherwise.

I drew the Digging in the Dirt adventure for the catacombs, and was at 9 elder signs with Hastur at about 7 out of 12 (with a guaranteed doom each Midnight at that point). So Darrell had to go get an Ally, and then he went for it, using yellow/red dice, but he barely failed it with some unlucky rolling, and then failed it again and was devoured. Sister Mary tried, too, and again, nearly completed it, but was also devoured, which added the last doom token for the loss. Still, it was very fun and challenging.

So, I can't say this is "finished" after one good test, but for now it's looking good. If anyone wants to try it, YMMV, but I think it's probably ready for showtime.
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Jason Arnold
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Any plans on packaging it as a .pdf and submitting it to the files section?
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♫ Eric Herman ♫
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No plans, but I'll try to do that sometime.
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Cristiano
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I discovered your expansion now.
It appears great and very appreciated, but unfortunately all the links to the images are expired.
Any chance that you replace the links with new ones, so I can be able to download them?
 
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