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1830: Railways & Robber Barons» Forums » Rules

Subject: Starter Game rss

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Richard Lake
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1. The starter game rules say that during your turn you: 1) May lay or upgrade track, 2) May ... etc but they don't say whether or not you must do this in order. Since this is all that a newbie is supposed to read, can you run a train to get money, then build/buy something with that money, or is this an error and the actions must be done in order as in the non starter games.

2. Has anyone played the starter game enough to get a feel whether it is balanced enough to play regularly?
 
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Blorb Plorbst
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Bloomington
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Lay Track
then Lay Tokens

(these don't REALLY have to come in order but there's no advantage to doing Tokens first)

Running trains always comes last.


I don't believe that the Starter Game offers enough balance to play on its own. Some lines simply have better runs available.
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Tobias Kriener
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the order of actions in the Operation Round always is:
1 - lay track
2 - build station (place token)
3 - earn income
4 - buy train (the only "must" if you don't have one already)

this is an eternal & unalterable law in ALL 18xx games. there may be some phases added in several variants - but these 4 phases always occur in this order. period.
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Tobias Kriener
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Quote:
Running trains always comes last.


wrong! buying trains always comes last!
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Chester
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toker wrote:
Quote:
Running trains always comes last.


wrong! buying trains always comes last!

I'm not familiar with the wording of the rules for the starter game, so not sure if there might be an intentional deviation from the 18xx norm.

In general buying trains is last, but the point is that it occurs after running routes (so that you can't buy THEN run a train in the same turn, but you can withhold and use funds from this turn's run to finance the train).

Many 18xx have additional operation actions after buying trains (like taking loans, making interest payments, redeeming/issuing shares), so I think to try and say anything dogmatic can be unnecessarily narrow.
 
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Dave Berry
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toker wrote:
the order of actions in the Operation Round always is:
1 - lay track
2 - build station (place token)
3 - earn income
4 - buy train (the only "must" if you don't have one already)

this is an eternal & unalterable law in ALL 18xx games. there may be some phases added in several variants - but these 4 phases always occur in this order. period.


When I read this, my immediate thought was that 1825 is a partial exception. The rules list laying track and building stations as one phase, followed by the other two in the usual order. I take this to mean that you can place a token and then use that as a base for laying tiles. However, the rules don't explicitly say that you can do this, and the text describing tile lays comes before the explanation of how to place tokens. So the rules are open to interpretation either way.
 
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Eric Brosius
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My favorite 18xx game for six players is two games of 1846 with three players each.
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In 1846: The Race for the Midwest, a corporation may lay two tiles in an OR. A token may be placed before, after or in between tile lays.
 
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Ho hd
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toker wrote:
Quote:
Running trains always comes last.


wrong! buying trains always comes last!


also wrong! in some variants, buying trains is not always last!
 
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Ho hd
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toker wrote:
the order of actions in the Operation Round always is:
1 - lay track
2 - build station (place token)
3 - earn income
4 - buy train (the only "must" if you don't have one already)

this is an eternal & unalterable law in ALL 18xx games. there may be some phases added in several variants - but these 4 phases always occur in this order. period.


In most variants, running trains for maximum revenue is a must also.
 
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J C Lawrence
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thirdman wrote:
In most variants, running trains for maximum revenue is a must also.


Change that to, Runs must be the largest legal run identified by a shareholder, and I'll agree with you.

The division over the necessity of companies owning trains, let alone whether a company without a route must own a train, is also fairly cavernous.

For our next entertainment we could go on to track building rules and the limits regarding visibility of both the tile and the new track on the tile to the company and the company's trains. There's a wise range of divisions there.
 
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Ho hd
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clearclaw wrote:
thirdman wrote:
In most variants, running trains for maximum revenue is a must also.


Change that to, Runs must be the largest legal run identified by a shareholder, and I'll agree with you.


1860 does not need to comply to this if I remember correctly.
 
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J C Lawrence
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Or 1830. 1830 requires only that the president declare the largest legal run identified by a shareholder. 1844 is one of the few titles to explicitly declare that companies must always declare their maximum run -- as that is necessitated by the rules for activating tunnel and mountain privates in that game.
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Bob Wooster
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To get back to the original OPs question...

1. Yes, the actions are to be taken in the order indicated (1) either lay or upgrade track (or neither), (2) place token, (3) run train(s), (4) purchase train(s).

2. I just purchased the new Mayfair version as well and I'm fairly new to 18xx, but I don't think the starter game is intended for regular play. The starter game is only intended to help one learn how the operating round rules work without having to worry about the stock market aspects of the game at the same time.

Hope that helps. Enjoy.
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Jake Waltier
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temujin1206 wrote:
I just purchased the new Mayfair version as well and I'm fairly new to 18xx, but I don't think the starter game is intended for regular play. The starter game is only intended to help one learn how the operating round rules work without having to worry about the stock market aspects of the game at the same time.

I agree with this. I recommend playing the starter game long enough for each player to fully understand how operating a company works, but no longer than that. One of my friends described the starter game as "a poor man's Steam" and I think that's being generous.
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Darrell Hanning
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TwentySides wrote:
temujin1206 wrote:
I just purchased the new Mayfair version as well and I'm fairly new to 18xx, but I don't think the starter game is intended for regular play. The starter game is only intended to help one learn how the operating round rules work without having to worry about the stock market aspects of the game at the same time.

I agree with this. I recommend playing the starter game long enough for each player to fully understand how operating a company works, but no longer than that. One of my friends described the starter game as "a poor man's Steam" and I think that's being generous.


Yep, it's the bike with training wheels on. Still, for the person completely new to 18xx (and not accustomed to the heavier class of non-wargames it occupies), it's a good exercise in familiarization with the pertinent geography, the limits of the tile availability, the merits and downside to tile upgrades, etc.
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Richard Lake
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Thanks for all of the commentary. I actually have played 1870 and 18EU with a hardcore group and bought 1830 to give me something to play with while trying to get up to speed in 18XX. But, I also have friends who play lighter games, such as Steam, and want to figure out how to ease them into 1830, while offering a more balanced experience. Bidding for RR's would probably balance the game, but if you knew what to bid, you're ready for the next level.
 
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Bruce Murphy
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The basic game isn't a game so much as a tedious exercise. While it will build familiarity with a few of the concepts, it also completely lacks interest or any compelling reason to play it, which might be fatal if you're trying to convince people to try 18xx.

Perhaps a smaller-but-still-interesting game like 18VA might also work.

B>
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