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A Game of Thrones: The Board Game (Second Edition)» Forums » Strategy

Subject: 4 player games, Baratheon OP? rss

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Sean Combs
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In the last two weeks my playing group have played 3 games with the same result.

Baratheon manages to block Stark at sea and heads south to conquoer the south.

What is the formula for stopping Baratheon? Is it up to Stark to put pressure on Baratheon? Or is Lannister needed?
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Alexandre Dupuis
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I haven't seen the layout of the 2nd edition but the typical move for Stark is to put a +1 march order on one of his boats up north and hold it off until Baratheon has played all of his movement. That way you have a deterent if ever he'd like to take the north seas and you have stomping power if he decides for this unwise move.
 
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David Jackman
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Grizzz wrote:
I haven't seen the layout of the 2nd edition but the typical move for Stark is to put a +1 march order on one of his boats up north and hold it off until Baratheon has played all of his movement. That way you have a deterent if ever he'd like to take the north seas and you have stomping power if he decides for this unwise move.


Well, the thing is, Barantheon doesnt need to push north to win - not at all really. He is close to a ton of strongholds on the south side of the board.

We just played a 4p game where barantheon won last night, even after stark took Dragonstone on turn 3 and held it till turn 6.

Yeah, it is pretty clear that Lannister or Greyjoy needs to put some pressure on barantheon, I think. Stark could have done a little better, but Me (playing Greyjoy) was busy ahnillating lannister(which probably made me an inadvertant kingmaker).

I think the key to Barantheon not winning is Lannister and Greyjoy allying at the beginning of the game. They dont need to stay that way, but infighting early on will let barantheon walk all over the neutral areas.

Lannister is most definitely better set to hurt Barantheon than stark is.

Stark might consider taking The Eirie (and the narrow sea, obviously) early.
 
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Tim Gilberg
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Saan wrote:

Yeah, it is pretty clear that Lannister or Greyjoy needs to put some pressure on barantheon, I think. Stark could have done a little better, but Me (playing Greyjoy) was busy ahnillating lannister(which probably made me an inadvertant kingmaker).


And there's you're problem. Same with 1st edition. If Greyjoy stomps Lannister, Baratheon has no challenger and wins.
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tim schirm
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What I think makes Baratheon such a power house is their control of the seas.

Baratheon can grab alot castle early in the game b/c they have access to alot castle via the seas and they start with two ships. if the baratheon (bara) player invades the eastern sea (sea zone directly below they starting seazone they have access to the following castles:
storm's end, crackclaw point, sunspear, starfall

three of those castles are undefended in the beginning of a 6 player game.

in a four player game, i imagine the power grab is to move a ship into blackwater and using support grab king's landing and on the following turn grab storm's end, the reach and crackclaw. now you have a total of 5 castles in turn 2 mainly unopposed. if your other players are obsessed with attacking their neighbors and fulfilling thematic battles from the books, the bara player will win on turn three.

i think to prevent this the strategy that all players must have and not just you is: my neighbor is my enemy and the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

that 4 player game: lannister and stark need to form alliance and put pressure on greyjoy and baratheon. when i mean alliance, i'm not talking lets just not attack each other but a coordinated military campaign to make both greyjoy and baratheon defend on two fronts at the same time. if the baratheon player grabs castles early as above the lannister player should have a force next to it to take it back the next turn and the stark player should be mustering navies to assault the baratheon troop supply line from dragonstone.

i know it is easier said then done and it is not going to be pretty, but short games and quick wins happen because of the passive posturing of 2 or more players.
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Sean Combs
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When playing Greyjoy in a 4 player game, i felt VERY limited. If i went north i would take out Stark, but that would take ALOT of pressure off Baratheon, meanwhile if i went east/south i would hit Lannister which would make Baratheon able to take the center/south.So i went with only taking a couple of castles north of Lannister and making an alliance with him. Stark then wasted a couple of turns trying to attack me, but realised(late) that it was pointless.Baratheon won that game ofc.

I kinda feel like 4 player games are all abouttrying to prevent Baratheon from winning.

Maybe with more experience we will get the formula for Baratheon not to be so OP.
 
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Chris Montgomery
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The problem is that, early in the game, not matter the number of players, really, Baratheon has no adjacent enemy that threatens them. It is pretty much a landgrab without any real opposition.

They are kind of like England on a map of Europe - tucked off in a corner, but close enough to threaten resource-rich areas. Stark is similar, but with the added obstacle that there really aren't a lot of resources for them take.

Adding Sunspear into the mix helps to balance things out a bit, but the game seems, especially in 4-player, to give the edge to Baratheon unless all the players are well-experienced with the game with several plays under their belt. Unfortunately, that has never been the case in any game I have played.
 
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Leo Jeda
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What if Lannister moved south along the sea from the other side? All they have to do is defend vs. Greyjoy and they can move in to take the Dornish Castles.
 
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Matt Shinners
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Leoj wrote:
What if Lannister moved south along the sea from the other side? All they have to do is defend vs. Greyjoy and they can move in to take the Dornish Castles.


At that point, it seems like a Lannister vs. Baratheon race. I think the answer to this is going to lie in increasing the neutral force tokens, or making them more deadly (by adding a random draw from the ToB deck, for instance)
 
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Jake Smith
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InFrom wrote:
When playing Greyjoy in a 4 player game, i felt VERY limited. If i went north i would take out Stark, but that would take ALOT of pressure off Baratheon, meanwhile if i went east/south i would hit Lannister which would make Baratheon able to take the center/south.So i went with only taking a couple of castles north of Lannister and making an alliance with him. Stark then wasted a couple of turns trying to attack me, but realised(late) that it was pointless.Baratheon won that game ofc.

I kinda feel like 4 player games are all abouttrying to prevent Baratheon from winning.

Maybe with more experience we will get the formula for Baratheon not to be so OP.


First post on the geek! yay!

I agree with this statement. In my group we first thought that Baratheon was OP. Baratheon won three times in a row. Thenwe houseruled the game closing of alot of territory in the south so Baratheon wouldnt be able to just go down and grab those and win. After a few more games and strategic thought its more the case of Greyjoy not being able to do anything. I played as Greyjoy last session and the game pretty much was a sit and wait for me. Stark moved south battling baratheon in the sea and on land. Lannister moved east and put pressure on Baratheon. Lannister and Stark also had an alliance that meant they could really threathen baratheon and the result where that Baratheon finished last. I couldnt do anything as i was forced to stay back so Stark and Lannister could take on Baratheon. I made a deal with lannister to take the castle wich is house Tyrells starting position and i ended up holding it for the rest of the game but couldnt really do much with it cause it was so isolated. In the final rounds I attacked Stark to the north but was fighting an upphill battle. He swept down on me and hit me real hard taking out a lot of units and grabbing alot of territory. I eventually was able to take back the lost territories due to my support from the sea but Stark ended up winning a tight victory anyway. Another big disadvatage for me was not being able to muster units with the starorder in the beginning wich made building an army much harder. Also Greyjoys abillities to gather power tokens is pretty limited making it hard to get anywhere on the influence tracks.

I would love som advice on how to avoid this situation in future games and some oppinions on the above stated weaknesses of Greyjoy in a four player game.

 
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Søren Pedersen
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Two plays, and B made an easy win each time.
First play, Greyjoy attacking Riverrun and threathening the waters around lannisport leaving Lannisters on the heels the rest of the game.
Second play, Stark learned from previous experience, and attacked B's navy around dragonstone almost every turn, but it wasnt enough.

We discussed, and came to the following conclusion: If greyjoy puts the lannisters in a box on turn 1-2 then it leaves B neutral-bashing for victory. So maybe in the next game G, would put more effort into making a greater navy, to gain presence in the south (as well as L and B) it will mean a greater front towards lannisters, but it seems like it is necessary.

Like some of the above posts: If you dont stop B, they will win.

(We also made a variant, Siege towers cannot be used to conquer neutral towns: Turn 1: consolidate--> build siege tower. Each subsequent turn conquer one city/stronghold with a single siege tower with your -1 move order. Too strong.)
 
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Luke O'Hearn
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MattShinners wrote:
Leoj wrote:
What if Lannister moved south along the sea from the other side? All they have to do is defend vs. Greyjoy and they can move in to take the Dornish Castles.


At that point, it seems like a Lannister vs. Baratheon race. I think the answer to this is going to lie in increasing the neutral force tokens, or making them more deadly (by adding a random draw from the ToB deck, for instance)


I suspect the key to four player is a strong Greyjoy/Stark alliance. If those houses can hold their castles with little or no military presence, they will have a lot of resources with which to apply pressure to the Lannisters and Baratheons. This (I hope) should be enough to keep the Southern houses from plundering the neutrals too easily. We haven't tried this yet, though.
 
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Marcin Woźniak
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Anti - Bara alliance is reasonable thing to do, to suppress them, for first 2 rounds. But later, everyone for himself, with only short-term, one round, adjustable alliances.

Game is much more interesting and less irritating when everyone knows to expect enexpected. No intended kingmaking, because it ruins fun. Only limited "kingbashing"

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