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Subject: Completing the GOO task "any number of times" rss

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Judy Krauss
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From the rulebook:
Quote:
During the Attack the Ancient One step, players roll dice as they did during the Resolve an Adventure Card step. Each Ancient One has a Combat Task printed on its card. Each time the active investigator completes this task, remove a Doom token from the Doom track. Investigators may complete the task any number of times during the Attack the Ancient One step (but only once for each time they roll the dice).
If an investigator cannot complete the task, he must either set one die aside and attempt again to complete the combat task or fail to remove a Doom token. Investigators may not focus or assist while battling an Ancient One but may spend Common Items, Unique Items, and Spells. When a player fails to remove a Doom token, he does not suffer any penalties, but simply moves on to the Advance the Clock step of his turn.


The part that is really driving me crazy is this:
"Investigators may complete the task any number of times during the Attack the Ancient One step (but only once for each time they roll the dice)."

Does this mean that as long as a player successfully completes the GOO task, she can keep taking more chances (rolling all the dice again after a success)) until she fails (although she can roll normally until it is impossible to succeed--except no focusing or assisting)? If so, that would actually give the players a chance to win in a battle against a GOO...

Anyway, that's how I've decided to interpret until I hear differently. The rules concerning battling the GOO are really ambiguous.

I'm also using a variant that each investigator gets a chance to attack the GOO once (with each player possibly having more than one success, as noted above) before the Goo attacks. This favors having more investigators in a game, though, and makes it very hard for solo characters.
 
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Paul Roberts
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Jude wrote:
From the rulebook:
Quote:
During the Attack the Ancient One step, players roll dice as they did during the Resolve an Adventure Card step. Each Ancient One has a Combat Task printed on its card. Each time the active investigator completes this task, remove a Doom token from the Doom track. Investigators may complete the task any number of times during the Attack the Ancient One step (but only once for each time they roll the dice).
If an investigator cannot complete the task, he must either set one die aside and attempt again to complete the combat task or fail to remove a Doom token. Investigators may not focus or assist while battling an Ancient One but may spend Common Items, Unique Items, and Spells. When a player fails to remove a Doom token, he does not suffer any penalties, but simply moves on to the Advance the Clock step of his turn.


The part that is really driving me crazy is this:
"Investigators may complete the task any number of times during the Attack the Ancient One step (but only once for each time they roll the dice)."

Does this mean that as long as a player successfully completes the GOO task, she can keep taking more chances (rolling all the dice again after a success)) until she fails (although she can roll normally until it is impossible to succeed--except no focusing or assisting)? If so, that would actually give the players a chance to win in a battle against a GOO...


You complete the GOO task as per the Adventure cards,i.e when you complete the task you set the successful dice aside on the GOO Card, you can then roll the remaining dice to see if you can succeed again.
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Paul DeStefano
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You still use up the dice.

You can keep going, but its going to be tough beating a GOO with 1 green die...
 
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Steve Duff
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The rules aren't ambiguous at all, as long as you actually remember them.
Quote:
A die placed on a requirement may not be rolled again


Thus, you can complete the GOO task any number of times, but always only with the leftover dice you haven't used yet. The parenthetical just reminds you that you can't complete the task multiple times with one lucky roll.
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Judy Krauss
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UnknownParkerBrother wrote:
The rules aren't ambiguous at all, as long as you actually remember them.
Quote:
A die placed on a requirement may not be rolled again


Thus, you can complete the GOO task any number of times, but always only with the leftover dice you haven't used yet. The parenthetical just reminds you that you can't complete the task multiple times with one lucky roll.


Not that it really matters most games, since Elder Sign is usually so easy to beat that the investigators get enough elder signs to win before the elder god (GOO) even awakens, but...

First of all, for those of you who are interpreting the GOO fighting rules to say that dice used to complete the task are locked for that investigator until her/his next turn:

How can you be so positive? Have you seen a FAQ or gotten a clarification from the designer or FFG?
The actual written rules state no such thing. (The quoted rule from UnknownParkerBrother is taken from an earlier part of the rulebook dealing with resolving tasks/monsters on adventure cards, not with fighting GOOs.)

The rules I quoted, taken from the GOO-fighting section of the rulebook...

[During the Attack the Ancient One step, players roll dice as they did during the Resolve an Adventure Card step. Each Ancient One has a Combat Task printed on its card. Each time the active investigator completes this task, remove a Doom token from the Doom track. Investigators may complete the task any number of times during the Attack the Ancient One step (but only once for each time they roll the dice).
If an investigator cannot complete the task, he must either set one die aside and attempt again to complete the combat task or fail to remove a Doom token. Investigators may not focus or assist while battling an Ancient One but may spend Common Items, Unique Items, and Spells. When a player fails to remove a Doom token, he does not suffer any penalties, but simply moves on to the Advance the Clock step of his turn.[/q]

...are quite ambiguous. Although they state that "players roll dice as they did during the Resolve an Adventure Card step" they then list all sorts of exceptions, and don't mention clue tokens at all! Therefore, it cannot mean that GOO-fighting dice rolling is exactly like Adventure card dice-rolling, since it isn't.


Even more significantly, although the GOO-fighting rules go into detail about what to do if a player cannot complete a task (setting dice aside and attempt again), they never mention locking the dice for successfully completing a task, but they do state that investigators may complete the take ANY number of times.

Note that the rules did NOT state "more than one time if there are sufficient dice remaining to try more than once" or "as many times as possible without reusing dice already used to complete the task or set aside" or anything even somewhat similar.

The only restriction was that the investigators cannot complete the task more than once for "each time they roll the dice" -- which would make sense since usually investigators are only allowed to complete one task at the time, anyhow, but especially since there is only one task printed on the GOO card once!


That is why I think a reasonable interpretation of the GOO-fighting rules would be that IF an investigator succeeds at completing the elder god's task, then all of the dice available to the investigator that turn are again available to try to complete the task again. Once the investigator fails to complete the task using the available dice, then her/his turn is over and she/he advances the clock.


Anyway, like I mentioned above, I am basing this interpretation on a reading of the actually GOO-fighting rules, which are ambiguously written and holey, but which, as written support my view. I am very interested in knowing if there is a FAQ/errata or some other clarification that would officially set the rules in a clear manner, so we could all play by the same rules! Perhaps you guys are right in your interpretation, but it can't be proven by reading the rulebook.

I would also like to see some clarification about how/if clue tokens are used in GOO-fighting, and how the clock is moved with varying numbers of investigators (supposedly, the game was designed for 4 investigators, which is why the clock has 4 turns before "midnight"or before the GOO attacks in the endgame, so that all characters got a chance to have a turn -- which doesn't work so well with more or less investigators...).
 
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Steve Duff
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Jude wrote:
Although they state that "players roll dice as they did during the Resolve an Adventure Card step" they then list all sorts of exceptions, and don't mention clue tokens at all!


Precisely. The rules tell you that fighting the GOO is just like normal adventure cards, except for one specific exception that you can't focus or assist. The rule I quoted about assigning dice is listed in that previous section. So, you do everything you normally do, except don't focus or assist. Which means you set aside dice for completing tasks. They don't mention clues, because they function just as they always do. If clues were an exception, they'd be listed as no longer being usable, just like focusing and assisting.

Sorry, I think you're reaching here. Assigning dice to tasks functions a certain way the entire time, it just doesn't make sense to completely change that in the last few minutes of play.

Plus, it would make the final battle drop dead easy. The first character would probably just roll through the entire stack of doom tokens on his first try. The GOO probably wouldn't even get an attack in, let alone the other players in the game.
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Darrell Pavitt
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My reading is that "investigators may complete the task any number of times" just means that the GOO task is repeatable, that is, it has the same requirements each time ,but no more than one success per roll.

You would still set aside successful dice as normal, and reroll what remains.

Does Amanda Sharpe's ability allow her to complete it twice or more? I don't see why not.

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Jude wrote:


The part that is really driving me crazy is this:
"Investigators may complete the task any number of times during the Attack the Ancient One step (but only once for each time they roll the dice)."


Yep, I stumbled into the exact same thing when I played at mine last night- to me that wording suggests you can attempt to complete the task any number of times as long as you have dice- so we were also doing exactly the same as you and if we passed we were continuing to roll all dice again, only losing a dice if we actually failed a roll.

I suspected something must be wrong when one guy with 6 green, 1 red and 1 yellow dice with 3 clues managed to defeat Cthulhu almost single handedly dealing something like 10 hits back to back with still 4 dice left!

I think this text is very misleading and although logically you should assign the dice now I think about it this text suggests no such thing.

Glad I found this because I know what I did wrong. Thanks! goo
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