Recommend
17 
 Thumb up
 Hide
24 Posts

Advanced Squad Leader» Forums » Sessions

Subject: Going to Church - #105 from FKaC rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Mark Tomlinson
United Kingdom
Sheffield
Yorkshire
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
http://www.aslscenarioarchive.com/scenario.php?id=56070

Jim (BGG Ashiefan) came round today to play our 5th scenario of ASL. It is an infantry only affair that I had played solo a while ago. I recalled to Jim before we started that I thought the Canadians had the edge due to a huge advantage in squad numbers against the SS who only have 4.5 squads, 2 leaders (9-1/8-0) and a hero, 2 LMGs and 1 MMG. The Canadians have 9 squads, some good leaders, light mortar, MGs and a DC. Although I have just checked the ROAR data and found it to be heavily in favour of the SS (125 to 91). So my impression that this might be the first win for the attackers in our encounters so far was probably misplaced.

The SS basically have to hold onto a church on half a board. If the Allies break all the units in the church they win. There are 6 turns to do it. This is the map (half of board 23):



The Germans have to set up within 3 hexes of E4. I drew the Germans. I placed a HS with the MMG in D6 to cover the road alongside the church - we had a discussion about firelanes before we started as we hadn't used that rule before and I thought it might be important in this one (not so as it turned out). I intended to lay down a firelane through to J3 if the allies tried to come across from that side. The rest of the squads: 1 + lmg each in F3 and F4 on level 2. One in D4 ground. One in F4 ground with the hero. The ground units were to move depending on where Jim set up with the upper level squads staying put. The 9-1 leader went on the upper level and the 8-0 with the HS.

Jim set up a light mortar with leader and HS in P8 a way back but in range of the church. He set most of his other units around L1 L3 L4 in big stacks.

Jim moved first and advanced up to the buildings J1-J3. We spent a while exchanging fire here. On the first or second turn my MMG got lucky and broke his 9-2 leader and a squad which routed back. This MMG then promptly broke down (as usual for me). The mortar had successfully laid smoke in G4 which severely restricted my firing from the upper levels of the church. I got lucky again and my sniper broke the HS manning the mortar so it was effectively out for a couple of turns.

My HS and MMG moved back into the church, but kept failing to repair the SW. I kept putting another squad into hex G3 behind the wall (all hedges are walls in this scenario) and brought up my squad in D4 to F3/G3 to try and keep the Canadians from storming across in the open across row H. I was lucky here that these ground level squads didn't get reduced, but just broke and fell back into the church. They both eventually got broken, but they had effectively prevented Jim from advancing until turn 4 (out of 6). He then went all out and stormed the building.

My defensive fire was largely ineffective here and Jim CX'd a lot of units adjacent to the church through F2-E2-D2 etc. while my two high level units were locked into DFF and FPF against a closer (ultimately broken) unit at the front of the church. The Canadian 9-2 and a squad stayed behind, and a HS manning an HMG went berserk in J3 but was wiped out in the charge - but this further tied up my few firing units while Jim went round with his other squads.

It all got pretty hairy from here as the Canadians got a foothold into the building. I tried to block the stairwells sometimes even with sacrificial broken units and the hero (who got overrun) which kept Jim from an all out rout of the building. Eventually we got to turn 5 and 6 and I had most of my units on the top floor. A big stack in D4 (level 2) which exchanged fire with E3 on the ground floor, a single squad in level 1 of D4 miraculously stopping some units from getting up the stairs and laying the DC, and a unit in E4 (2nd level) which ended up in melee and surviving into the last turn. The unit in D4 level 1 managed to move out of LOS on the last German movement phase (going to E4 level 1) effectively ending Jim's hopes of a win as it could not be broken before the end of the game.

So a German win and again no wins by an attacking force in our games so far.

I think Jim was a bit disappointed with this scenario and looked a bit underwhelmed at the end. I didn't think it was the best one we had played and it is pretty uninteresting as the SS player too (you are really crammed into a small space and have to just respond to what is thrown at you). I remembered it being fun as the Canadians, but I had used a different strategy so there is scope for replaying this one.

We also didn't have to look up so many rules so I think we are improving. One rule we didn't find an answer to was if a unit goes berserk but has no enemy in LOS (which happened when a unit self rallied behind the lines on a 2 DR). What happens? We assumed that after the MPh the berserk status is lost and unit returns to normal. Jim thought it might charge the last unit it had seen (which in this case was obviously in the church). We just rolled a die to resolve it and the unit stayed put and then lost berserk status after the MPh. Another issue was orchards which were in season. We know an in season orchard casts a blind hex from a unit of higher elevation. But what is the situation if an orchard is adjacent and a unit is higher? In this case hex F2 against a unit in F3 upper level. Is the orchard treated differently here? We assumed it would be like a wood hex and gave a +1 TEM.

12 
 Thumb up
0.06
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
ian morris
United Kingdom
Birmingham
West Mids
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb


A15.44 No enemy unit in LOS : result changed to Battle Hardening.



6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Tomlinson
United Kingdom
Sheffield
Yorkshire
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks. We should have spotted that.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lucas Emery
United States
Charlottesville
Virginia
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
The orchards in this scenario are confusing!

B14.2 says an in-season orchard hex is a one level obstacle to/from a higher elevation. I take this to mean a unit at Level 1 or 2 in F3 would not have a LOS to units in F2 at all because the units are at the base level (i.e. Level 0) of that hex. Hopefully a guru will chime in with the answer.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Charles Stevens
United States
Sacramento
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
word_virus wrote:
The orchards in this scenario are confusing!

B14.2 says an in-season orchard hex is a one level obstacle to/from a higher elevation. I take this to mean a unit at Level 1 or 2 in F3 would not have a LOS to units in F2 at all because the units are at the base level (i.e. Level 0) of that hex. Hopefully a guru will chime in with the answer.


No Lucas,
An obstacle will affect LOS only if it is between the firing and target hex check A6.2:

6.2 Obstacles: Each terrain type [EXC: Depressions 6.3] is defined as to whether or not it presents an obstacle or Hindrance to LOS and, if an obstacle, the height of that obstacle. LOS extends into or out of obstacles, but not through them into hexes beyond the obstacle except in certain cases wherein the target/firer are at an elevation ≥ the height of the obstacle or are adjacent to a hexside obstacle. The terrain in a firer's hex never blocks LOS traced from its hex center dot, although it may block LOS traced from a vertex of its hex across the interior of its own hex.

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Agent J
United States
Coldwater
Michigan
flag msg tools
He's looking real sharp in his 1940's fedora. He's got nerves of steel, an iron will, and several other metal-themed attributes. His fur is water tight and he's always up for a fight.
badge
He's a semi-aquatic egg-laying mammal of action. He's a furry little flat-foot who'll never flinch from a fray. He's got more than just mad skills, he's got a beaver tail and a bill.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't think they had to look up those rules, they just rattle them off the top of their heads.

Thanks for the session report. ASL has been on my radar a long time but is a blip in the distance of things that my kids will have to bring to me someday to ever have a chance to play this one... takes forever, so many rules, but I'd learn them if I had someone else willing to learn them who could play more than once a year...

This was interesting to read in light of playing company of heroes online... I'll never click fast enough but maybe I actually have the ability to strategically and tactically plan... and I'd love to prove it in a board game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Tomlinson
United Kingdom
Sheffield
Yorkshire
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Jythier wrote:
I don't think they had to look up those rules, they just rattle them off the top of their heads.

Thanks for the session report. ASL has been on my radar a long time but is a blip in the distance of things that my kids will have to bring to me someday to ever have a chance to play this one... takes forever, so many rules, but I'd learn them if I had someone else willing to learn them who could play more than once a year...



I think you have to play this game fairly regularly to keep up with it (I would say once a month at the very least if you have a good memory - and mine isn't what it used to be laugh). I am very grateful that Jim drives over every week or two to play it. In-between I play one or two small scenarios a week solo.

We are getting better at the rules, so for instance this week 2 units went berserk, but we remembered most of the rules from the previous session where a berserk incident also happened and thus didn't have to worry a lot about it (for example, the rule about not carrying heavy weapons during a charge and what to do for close combat afterwards). I should have spotted rule 15.44, but was bogged down reading through 15.43 and 15.431 to try and find the explanation... During play I think the best thing to do is just to note which rules are unclear to you and make a decision and check it out afterwards.

I also annotate my rulebook. One problem with the rules is they are very dense. If the paragraphs were split into neat bullet points it would make things a lot easier to find, but then the rulebook would become enormous and even more expensive. I guess there has to be a compromise somewhere.

Posting these sessions is good for us as we can clarify things with other players and get good advice. BGG is really a goldmine in that sense.
3 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lucas Emery
United States
Charlottesville
Virginia
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Slapshot12 wrote:
word_virus wrote:
The orchards in this scenario are confusing!

B14.2 says an in-season orchard hex is a one level obstacle to/from a higher elevation. I take this to mean a unit at Level 1 or 2 in F3 would not have a LOS to units in F2 at all because the units are at the base level (i.e. Level 0) of that hex. Hopefully a guru will chime in with the answer.


No Lucas,
An obstacle will affect LOS only if it is between the firing and target hex check A6.2:

6.2 Obstacles: Each terrain type [EXC: Depressions 6.3] is defined as to whether or not it presents an obstacle or Hindrance to LOS and, if an obstacle, the height of that obstacle. LOS extends into or out of obstacles, but not through them into hexes beyond the obstacle except in certain cases wherein the target/firer are at an elevation ≥ the height of the obstacle or are adjacent to a hexside obstacle. The terrain in a firer's hex never blocks LOS traced from its hex center dot, although it may block LOS traced from a vertex of its hex across the interior of its own hex.



Well now I'm confused again

I could be totally off-base here because I'm still learning, too, but doesn't the end of A6.2 there "except in certain cases wherein the target/firer are at an elevation ≥ the height of the obstacle or are adjacent to a hexside obstacle" specifically allow for exceptions like B14.2? I always played it as a LOS wouldn't exist because the Germans can't shoot through the dense orchard canopy from above.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robin REEVE
Switzerland
St-Légier
Vaud
flag msg tools
badge
Looking for a game session in Switzerland? Send me a pm!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
word_virus wrote:
I always played it as a LOS wouldn't exist because the Germans can't shoot through the dense orchard canopy from above.
You got it wrong.
Would you play the same if it were a building or a woods hex?
That would mean that units in adjacent obstacles cannot fire against one another.

A6.2 is clear that you can fire into an obstacle hex (as previously underlined : " LOS extends into or out of obstacles, but not through them into hexes beyond the obstacle except in certain cases wherein the target/firer are at an elevation ≥ the height of the obstacle or are adjacent to a hexside obstacle.")

The "canopy" effect of an orchard is that it prevents FFMO (but it protects less than woods, which have more dense vegetation).
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robin REEVE
Switzerland
St-Légier
Vaud
flag msg tools
badge
Looking for a game session in Switzerland? Send me a pm!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Another point about the VCs of the scenario : if at one time there is no German unit in the church, the British win...
So the German player must be wary not to get everybody out of the building, or he will hand victory to his opponent.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lucas Emery
United States
Charlottesville
Virginia
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Robin, you're right -- I would've played it differently if it was a woods hex, so I stand corrected.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martí Cabré

Terrassa
Catalonia, Spain
msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
CletePurcel wrote:
One rule we didn't find an answer to was if a unit goes berserk but has no enemy in LOS (which happened when a unit self rallied behind the lines on a 2 DR).


If this was a MMC self-rally then for snake eyes Heat of Battle (A15) would not apply. Instead it would be a Field Promotion (A18) so there would be no berserk results.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Tomlinson
United Kingdom
Sheffield
Yorkshire
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
marticabre wrote:
CletePurcel wrote:
One rule we didn't find an answer to was if a unit goes berserk but has no enemy in LOS (which happened when a unit self rallied behind the lines on a 2 DR).


If this was a MMC self-rally then for snake eyes Heat of Battle (A15) would not apply. Instead it would be a Field Promotion (A18) so there would be no berserk results.


Thanks, Marti. Looks like we messed up on this berserker business again.

I think it was a self rally (but I could be wrong). I just checked up the rules and this illustrates my point made above about how difficult it is to make a rulebook concise yet comprehensive with such a complex system.

The main rules on HOB don't say what happens to a self-rallying MMC unit other than the 2 DR doesn't send them berserk (unless I am still missing it). Then you have to look in the self-rally section (I think it's section 10) and it says they do a field promotion (rule 18). Then you finally get to find out about leadership creation in 18.1

Phew.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martí Cabré

Terrassa
Catalonia, Spain
msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yep. No the best rulebook in the world, I agree. But a hell of a game.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jim F
United Kingdom
Birmingham
West Midlands
flag msg tools
Where the heck did this interest in WW1 come from?
badge
Ashwin in front of Tiger 131
Avatar
mbmbmb

I think l was more underwhelmed by my own play than the scenario. I really wanted to storm into the building and drive out the SS at bayonet point. I got close but having done the hard work gave my opponent the opportunity to rally his broken units by forgetting to fire on them and DM them before they could rally. School boy error. I must also have had a premonition about the flat tyre that was waiting for me when l got out to my car.

Asl is a great game but its also v intense and requires lots of concentration. Some days l dont have that. Mark, on the other hand, played really well and made life v difficult for me. He deserved his victory.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Charles Stevens
United States
Sacramento
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Guys,
If you haven't tried these playaids, give them a try. They are great precisely because they list the little rules that you forget so easily when under pressure.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/filepage/43386/iift-quick-data-...
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/filepage/43385/ift-quick-data-r...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Tomlinson
United Kingdom
Sheffield
Yorkshire
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Slapshot12 wrote:
Guys,
If you haven't tried these playaids, give them a try. They are great precisely because they list the little rules that you forget so easily when under pressure.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/filepage/43386/iift-quick-data-...
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/filepage/43385/ift-quick-data-r...


Those look really useful. I will try those later with my next solo scenario (probably one from Condor Legions which I have just acquired).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boots
Australia
Melbourne
Victoria
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Great session report, sorry for thread necro. I played this one last night for the second time, both times I've been the Brits and both times I've lost. It's a tough one. In my second play last night, I misread the map badly in setup, and went for a heavy flanking move through the town, intending to access the church via the building in D6. My plan was to support this with the HMG from J3 plus supporting units, to keep the pressure on. Wow was it a bad plan.

Only after committing my DC to the extreme left flank did I realise that there's no good protected hex to jump off from on that side of the cathedral, and the overlapping fields of fire from F4, E4 and D4 mean you'll get cut up. Also, once the Germans retreat into the cathedral proper, J3 can't see them on the ground floor thanks to that wall. It's a tough nut to crack!

There's something about the 6 turn limit in this one - you're at the cathedral walls by turn 2 at the latest, unless your opponent does some spectacular falling back, and then that horrifying 6+2 or 6+5 SS FP starts to just hurt. Both times I've got excited by my seemingly fast progress, forgotten I had a turn or two up my sleeve, and tried to get into the building way too fast, only to get killed in CC, again by that scary FP. SS are bloody tough!

I realised in the post-game debrief that the most protected hex for an assault on the cathedral is G5, supported by crossfire from C6 that forces any troops in F4 to drop WA. If I play this again, that's where I'll be trying to get the DC to.

I think you've also got to be prepared to get up to the wall and occupy F1-H2-H4, but it's hard to close that gap unless the SS are distracted. Given the plan to go in through G5-F4, it seems the best place for the distraction is F6-G6-H5.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J.F. Van Natta
United States
Oregon
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks for the AAR. I've been looking long and hard at this scenario lately with an eye to adding it to our list of small, (hopefully) quick playing scenarios that my opponent and I can set up and play at a moment's notice when we find we have time on short notice or another scenario goes awry.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boots
Australia
Melbourne
Victoria
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It is a great learning scenario, especially for those coming up from SK. The guy I'm teaching got a lot out of it, and there aren't many new rules to learn.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Tomlinson
United Kingdom
Sheffield
Yorkshire
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I played this one again a few weeks ago as the Canadians at the Blackpool meeting and got absolutely annihilated. It is a difficult one for the attackers against a good defender.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brent Pollock
Canada
Saskatoon
Saskatchewan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
In case anyone wants to read an historical session report:
http://scholars.wlu.ca/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1439&cont...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Hong Kong Wargamer
msg tools
badge
http://www.hongkongwargamer.com
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Played this not long ago and the Germans blocking the staircase prevented me from CC'ing the last MMC up top! Thanks for the historical account.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave Johannsen

Virginia
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Boots01 wrote:
It is a great learning scenario, especially for those coming up from SK. The guy I'm teaching got a lot out of it, and there aren't many new rules to learn.


The person who is helping me move up from SK#1 chose this as a teaching scenario at this year's Winter Offensive. The game came down to the final roll of the dice on the last turn, when I got a bad roll on the CC table (of course, the guy teaching me gave me help and took it quite easy on me, as me learning was the point of the exercise). It was a blast to play!

To the OP, as the Nazis you can play a more active defense. As I started working my way up the left map edge (using all those buildings for cover), my opponent pulled units out of the church and moved to delay me (falling back to the church before I could get into CC with the units). Yep, it was certainly gobs o' fun!
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.