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Subject: Navegador card confusion rss

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wayne r
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I've played this game 3 times and lately my players and I have found the Navegador card to be confusing/unintuitive.

1. Looking through the thread, there is contradiction to when the Navegador can be used. One on thread the designer gave a short synopsis of what the gameplay mechanics were:

Quote:
The Navegador
There is a Navegador card running around the table (showing Henry the Navigator = Henrique o Navegador), in a way comparable to the Investor card in Imperial, but very different to it. This card may be used for an extra sailing action in addition to your usual turn, and immediately after being used, it goes to the next player. While the players execute their turns in clockwise order, the Navegador goes anti-clockwise. This helps to mitigate the advantage of the starting player, because the last player is the first who may execute the equivalent of 2 turns at once. Of course he can choose to wait until he thinks it is the best time to do so. Blocking the Navegador is not possible though, as the card has to be used within a certain time frame. Apart from working against the starting player’s advantage, it adds a desirable element of uncertainty to the exploration process. The fleet running ahead may be overtaken unexpectedly by a double sailing action of another player.


The highlighted part seems to indicate that he can choose to use it as soon as his turn comes around, yet in another thread the designer agreed with this post made by Faranim:

Quote:
2. The Navegador card cannot be used on the very first Turn of the game. When the player with the Navegador takes their first action, the Orange ship is placed on the Rondel on the space that they choose.


So which is the correct version? We've been playing it so that the last player can use the Navegador card as soon as his turn comes up during the first round.

If Faranim's interpretation is correct then does that mean that no player can use the Navegador card (in later rounds) as soon as they receive it and their turn comes up because they will have to put the orange ship on the action they chose?

This leads to another question. The timing of the placement of the orange ship. Does the player who received the Navegador card place the orange ship on the action that he already did or does he wait till his turn comes up and then places the orange ship on the action he chose to do that turn? We interpreted it as "the orange ship is placed as soon as the player makes up his decision as to what action he will do."

There was a big argument where the wording of the Navegador card rule could be interpreted in 2 ways. Half of the group made the argument that since the Navegador card is used before the owner takes his action, that he should be able to use the Navegador card even when he decides to take the action that the orange ship is on because he is using it before the action on the Rondel takes place (the question came up when the player forgot to use the Navegador card and she had almost completed a round on the Rondel. She didn't want to use the actions immediately before the orange ship one).

The other half interpreted it as "the player loses the Navegador card as soon as he declares his intent to do the action that the orange ship is on (after that player has gone almost full circle on the Rondel).

I ruled in favor of the latter and the ruling lessened their enjoyment of the game (they really felt strongly about the former) which in turn bothered me for not making the experience fun. I could not explain why my interpretation was correct and theirs was wrong and that can leave a sour taste on a player's experience of the game.

Please help! This was a very expansive purchase ($60 plus Florida tax) and I rather want to enjoy many more plays of this game.
 
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Asgeir Jonsson
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There was a thread by the designer where he said that you cannot use it in the first round. After that you can you use it whenever.
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Asgeir Jonsson
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Funny that 60$ is alot to you. I got mine with a 50% discount for something that is close to 65$. So about 130 was the original price. Iceland is expensive .
 
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Redford
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The Navegador card cannot be used on the very first turn of the game. On the first turn, that last player will pick an action on the rondel and execute it. That spot is where the orange ship goes, and the Navegador card must be used before that player's marker moves around the rondel once and moves onto or beyond that spot.

The Navegador card is used before declaring what action on the rondel you want to do. So if the action to be used after the card would place you on or after where the orange ship would have been, it doesn't matter because the card has already been used (and should have been passed to the player on the right, with the orange ship moving to their pawn's current space on the rondel). You do not have to declare your rondel selection before using the Navegador card.

Hopefully that covers it all. Let me know if you have any other questions.
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Steve Duff
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Oni no board wrote:
1. Looking through the thread, there is contradiction to when the Navegador can be used.

Quote:
...because the last player is the first who may execute the equivalent of 2 turns at once.


The highlighted part seems to indicate that he can choose to use it as soon as his turn comes around, yet in another thread the designer agreed with this post made by Faranim:

Quote:
2. The Navegador card cannot be used on the very first Turn of the game.


There's no contradiction here. The last player *is* the first player who will get 2 turns in a row. It will happen on turn 2 or later, because it's illegal on turn 1.

The last player on turn 2 is still the same person as the last player on turn 1.
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George
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You should probably just read the Navegador card rules on pg 7 to the group and it should clear it all up. The only thing missing from there is not being able to use it on the first round which is mentioned on the bottom of pg 2.
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wayne r
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soosy wrote:
You should probably just read the Navegador card rules on pg 7 to the group and it should clear it all up. The only thing missing from there is not being able to use it on the first round which is mentioned on the bottom of pg 2.


I saw that after I typed out my question. The Navegador rule looked straightforward so I didn't pay close attention to the example that was given. If I had, I would have given a decision I could back up with. It's weird that the game designer left that one tidbit rule out of the rulebook though (the 1st round thing...).
 
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Henrik Larsson
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I have an additional question regarding the Navegador card and figured it belongs in this thread.

Question 1.
I'm wondering about the timings of handing over the Navegador card. Let's say I use the Navegador card at the start of the turn of the player before me. I do my movement, and then that player gets the card.
Can that player now also use the Navegador card before they take their "real" turn since they just got the card from me, and their turn has not yet started? If they do, the card will go to the player before them, can they now also take a Navegador action before the player whose turn it is gets to act?

This seems silly to me and it feels like the Navegador card should be on a cooldown until it's your own turn.


Question 2.
Can you use the Navegador card "before" your own turn? We assumed so as the rules didn't say you couldn't, and a lot of topics here seems to say this is the case. I just want to confirm
 
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George
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mnemonicuz wrote:
I have an additional question regarding the Navegador card and figured it belongs in this thread.

Question 1.
I'm wondering about the timings of handing over the Navegador card. Let's say I use the Navegador card at the start of the turn of the player before me. I do my movement, and then that player gets the card.
Can that player now also use the Navegador card before they take their "real" turn since they just got the card from me, and their turn has not yet started? If they do, the card will go to the player before them, can they now also take a Navegador action before the player whose turn it is gets to act?

This seems silly to me and it feels like the Navegador card should be on a cooldown until it's your own turn.


Question 2.
Can you use the Navegador card "before" your own turn? We assumed so as the rules didn't say you couldn't, and a lot of topics here seems to say this is the case. I just want to confirm


Question 1: Can't happen because you can only use the Navegador before YOUR OWN turn. So when you use it, you pass it to the right, but play continues with the player on your left.

Question2: Yes, in fact before your own turn is the only time you can use it.
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