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No Retreat! The Russian Front» Forums » Rules

Subject: Can I trump "Heinz Guderian" with "Russian Tenacity"? rss

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Tuomo Syvänperä
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The german player is attacking and plays "Heinz Guderian", which would make it an automatic DR. Can I as the soviets play "Russian Tenacity" to make that an EX result?
 
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Timothy Phelps
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Canal Fulton
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I say NO!

(of course I am Tuomo's opponent so my answer could be slightly biased). cool
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Alex
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Asyncritus wrote:
I say NO!

(of course I am Tuomo's opponent so my answer could be slightly biased). cool


Rules say something like "if cards are conflicting, the last one played counts"
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Tuomo Syvänperä
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Asyncritus wrote:
I say NO!

(of course I am Tuomo's opponent so my answer could be slightly biased). cool


Hey, no peeking!

My understanding would be that it is possible to trump it. The rules say that both players get to play one card before the attack with the attacker playing his first so that the defender has full knowledge of what's going on. But there was just something about the wording on those cards or something that got me a bit confused. Basically just the fact that the first card played says to play before the dice are rolled and it's an automatic DR. Now the other card says the same thing, but the dice are never actually rolled anymore. But maybe I'm just overcomplicating things.

Of course now that Tim's card play slightly changed, this didn't come up anymore. But I'm still interested.
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Carl Paradis
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GangZda wrote:
Asyncritus wrote:
I say NO!

(of course I am Tuomo's opponent so my answer could be slightly biased). cool


Rules say something like "if cards are conflicting, the last one played counts"


This is correct. Read the "Appropriate Timing" rule of section 5.0; heck there is even an example of play that applies exactly to the question asked!!!

So in this case the Soviet card (defender) was played afer the German card, so it trumps it.

The answer is : YES! The battle resul is now an "EX"

Note: I intend to put a change in the Heinz Guderian card in the next living rules in Jan 2012. The card can only be used if the Germans have an Armor combat shift in the battle to be affected.
 
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Timothy Phelps
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For those that missed it, my answer was in jest.
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Frederic Bush
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licinius wrote:
GangZda wrote:
Asyncritus wrote:
I say NO!

(of course I am Tuomo's opponent so my answer could be slightly biased). :cool:


Rules say something like "if cards are conflicting, the last one played counts"


This is correct. Read the "Appropriate Timing" rule of section 5.0; heck there is even an example of play that applies exactly to the question asked!!!

So in this case the Soviet card (defender) was played afer the German card, so it trumps it.

The answer is : YES! The battle resul is now an "EX"

Note: I intend to put a change in the Heinz Guderian card in the next living rules in Jan 2012. The card can only be used if the Germans have an Armor combat shift in the battle to be affected.


I'm not sure that card would be very useful. Winning battles in clear terrain is not difficult for the Germans in the early game and doesn't help them much, while getting a DR result in cities (the usual use of the card) is crucial to their advance.

How about changing the card to, you must have a panzer unit in the attack?
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Carl Paradis
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fbush555 wrote:
How about changing the card to, you must have a panzer unit in the attack?


Nah.

Tanks are not very good vs cities. Granted, the counters represent ARMIES, and there is a sustantial number of infantry units in these, AND the hexes are 100km across, so the cities take only a proportionally small part of the space, but then they are the communication hub of the said hex, too...,

I much prefer "Armor shift". A Panzer in the attack is not restritive enough: in that case better to leave the card alone, not worth the change.

So don't go charging cities head-on with Guderian and your Panzers, skip around instead. Historically the few times panzergruppe Guderian did, they got a bloody nose.


 
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Ryan Nip
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licinius wrote:
Note: I intend to put a change in the Heinz Guderian card in the next living rules in Jan 2012. The card can only be used if the Germans have an Armor combat shift in the battle to be affected.


Carl, I don't find any change about Heinz Guderian in the living rules in Feb 2012.
So, is it inadvertently omitted by GMT? Or, you changed your mind in the last second and wanted to leave the card as it was?

Many thanks.
 
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Carl Paradis
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free_planet wrote:
licinius wrote:
Note: I intend to put a change in the Heinz Guderian card in the next living rules in Jan 2012. The card can only be used if the Germans have an Armor combat shift in the battle to be affected.


Carl, I don't find any change about Heinz Guderian in the living rules in Feb 2012.
So, is it inadvertently omitted by GMT? Or, you changed your mind in the last second and wanted to leave the card as it was?

Many thanks.


Indeed. I decided to leave the card "as is". enough help already for the Soviets in the second edition!!! whistle
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