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Subject: I wonder when WOTC will be smart enough to do an AD&D crossover? rss

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Richard Gagnon
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Considering that WOTC owns both Magic and AD&D, I'm surprised that they positioned a Magic set that crosses over to that game.

Instead of rolling dice for effects in AD&D, the effects could come from a deck of Magic cards. The part of the card devoted to flavor text can be used for AD&D details. A Magic equipment card can be a treasure card in AD&D. Spell cards can similarly be used both for Magic mechanics and flavor text showing the effects in AD&D. Creatures can similarly be documented with their stats in the text area.

The advantage of the crossover is introducing Magic players, that probably outnumber AD&D players now, to a game they probably haven't tried. It also gives AD&D players a reason to pick up Magic cards that can enhance how they play the RPG. The flavor text area of the cards are mostly ignored by Magic players since they have no impact on the actual playing of the game.
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Lexingtonian
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Magic design is tight, tight, tight. It seeks to create a very specific range of experiences for players in a very specific range of settings. An RPG crossover would throw a wrench in.

I'm not sure the flavor text is as irrelevant as you suggest, either, especially as they're trying to give each expansion more of a narrative backbone than in the past.
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Jerry Martin
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Well ADnd is two editions ago. But they have discussed it and Magic is trying to be its own thing. Magic base sets have a Dnd world like appeal but Magic goes all over the place. Mirrodin is a planet made of metal which doesn't really feel DND.

Zendikar was set in an Adventuring world that was intended to "feel" like a role playing game. Lots of things focused on traditional "like" DND characters. They had cards that "leveled up" and things you would find in a DND campaign.

Magic is MUCH MUCH more popular than DND and they have stated that they want to keep the two separate. But of course anything is possible. Just don't plan on seeing it anytime soon.
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fightcitymayor
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Curtis Anderson wrote:
Magic design is tight, tight, tight.
Yep. If it ain't broke...
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Adam O'Brien
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The real surprise is that there isn't an MtG RPG yet. It would be very easy to cobble together a game based on the D20 system, slap the Magic name on it, and sell a few million units.

I am hoping they learned from Heroscape that jamming D&D onto a different product does nothing but alienate fans of both games.
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Pete Lane
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There are plenty of "fan made" MTG RPGs out there... some using cards to encorporate your spell book and such... but I'm a-okay with them not doing such a thing for real. Then it'd be like a $50 set with exclusive foils of cards we haven't seen printed in 10 years or something. SIGH.
 
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Adam O'Brien
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I'm not saying I'd buy it, I am just surprised WotC hasn't made one yet. My assumption is that it would be overpriced ass-in-a-box.

They did print those spell cards for 4th ed., I believe to entice Magic players into D&D.
 
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3dicebombers wrote:
It would be very easy to cobble together a game based on the D20 system, slap the Magic name on it, and sell a few million units.
I always thought if the Collectible Minis business model hadn't collapsed that Magic would make an awesome CMG. Wizards could do it just like Star Wars minis, base it on the d20 system, and have awesome little minis of faves like Lord Of The Pit, and Serra Angel, and Goblin Ski Patrol. You would sell a million to minis players that enjoy Magic, and you would sell a billion to Magic players that want to be able to collect minis of their favorite cards.



 
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Aaron Morgan
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3dicebombers wrote:
The real surprise is that there isn't an MtG RPG yet.


It's a PC RPG, but Microprose released one in the late 90s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic:_The_Gathering_%28MicroPr...
 
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Richard Gagnon
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Syvanis wrote:
Magic base sets have a Dnd world like appeal but Magic goes all over the place.

Magic is MUCH MUCH more popular than DND


AD&D has even more variety than Magic. There are science fiction worlds, horror worlds, and other genres. I'd agree that Magic is more popular today, but over 500 AD&D expansions testifies to that game's popularity. It was every bit the innovation in its heyday as Magic was when it came out. The thing that killed pencil and paper RPGs was probably computer versions of the games. Players could see the monsters they were fighting and the experience was more immersive to the average player. Computer and video games are vastly more popular than RPGs and Magic.

I am surprised to hear that Magic players are reading the flavor text since it has no impact on gameplay. Using D&D text for flavor text won't hurt the "flavor". For example, here's the description for Acid Fog: "Acid fog creates a billowing mass of misty vapors similar to that produced by a solid fog spell. In addition to slowing creatures down and obscuring sight, this spell’s vapors are highly acidic. Each round on your turn, starting when you cast the spell, the fog deals 2d6 points of acid damage to each creature and object within it." This information would have to be condensed to fit the card and include the spell statistics, but I'd be hard pressed to imagine that this text would hurt the flavor of a Magic Acid Fog spell.

D&D didn't kill Heroscape. It was a last ditch effort to save it after Hasbro gave up on the game. Heroscape was an attempt to bring fantasy miniatures tabletop gaming to the mass market and that market simply didn't exist. The average person doesn't play many, if any, boardgames. This problem is partly due to families, with typically two working parents, not having the time to play games with their kids; a greater isolation of kids from anything but carefully arranged play dates with other kids; and partly due to other entertainment options keeping kids busy.

It would have been an interesting option had WOTC decided to tie Heroscape to Magic instead of AD&D. That would have increased costs because it would have required new sculptures and molds. While RPGs have lost much of the gaming audience, D&D is overall a more familiar brand than Magic. Magic has a built in audience that spends a lot of money. It would be easier to integrate the Magic damage and spell systems to a Magic RPG than dragging in the systems from an incompatible game.

Would Magic players want to use miniatures in their duals to bring creatures into play?

I don't think pencil and paper RPGs will ever return. Adding an RPG element to miniatures gaming takes the game out of only force-on-force battles. It allows the games to have other goals that can take precedence over routine fighting.
 
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Tommy Occhipinti
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I'd be much more excited about a Heroscape/Magic crossover than a Heroscape/D&D crossover. I've actually wanted some neat figures of the various Magic creatures/characters. Also, I think a lot of the same people would like Heroscape and Magic, where as I think D&D is really a totally different sort of game.
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Aaron Morgan
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rgagnon wrote:
I don't think pencil and paper RPGs will ever return.


They never went anywhere. The market is much smaller than it was 10 years ago, but it's now much more diverse and there are some great things being done with pushing the boundaries of gameplay.

Instead of TSR/WotC, White Wolf/CCP, and a few other companies dominating the market, things have shifted to small-scale Indie publishing. IMO, it's a much healthier model for the industry.
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Richard Gagnon
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No game format goes away entirely. I was really trying to say that paper and pencil RPGs won't ever have the kind of prominence that they had in the 70s-80s.

Who knows if Heroscape will ever come back.

Oddly, magic isn't played well in Heroscape. I could see bringing Magic cards in to fill that void. Sorcerers can battle with Magic while heroes and creatures battle. With Mage Knight singles still being cheap, quite a few Magic creatures can be replicated with miniatures in Heroscape. It could be an interesting challenge to cobble together the two games to create a different gaming experience. Instead of Magic being played as two dueling wizards, there can be multiple wizard figures with different colored spells fighting alongside heroes and creatures.

I'll throw the idea into the Heroscape group to see what kind of ideas they come up with.
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Yuri Walkiw
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I'd be more interested in seeing a Magic themed D&D. When I play with my friends, our DM often invents monsters that are based on things found in Magic: The Gathering. I'd totally buy a book that was full of creature stats and items from Magic the Gathering cards.
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