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Subject: Looking at Bill Eberle's power - "The Order" rss

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Chris O
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I was looking at some of the proposed powers over in Tech Tantra land, and this was the only power that I liked out of the group of Nanny, Bleeding Heart, and Multitude. I think this power has huge potential and really changes the game. In a sense it is like a Toady/Shub-Niggurath hybrid, and the sheet text is as long as Filth's and would barely fit the sheet. I noticed it needed a lot of rewording and clarifying so this is my attempt thus far:



[_] THE ORDER Has Semi-Permanent Allies [_]


You have the power of Unity. As a main player, before allies are invited, you may use this power to offer your opponent membership in The Order, if they are not already a member. If they accept, place an Order token on their sheet.

When both main players are in The Order, no alliances are allowed, and revealed Attack cards become Negotiates. If only one main player is in The Order, all Order member ships in the system being attacked count for him or her; and those ships are sent to the warp upon his or her loss. A game win for a member of The Order is a win for all members of The Order. As a main player, before alliances are made, an Order member may "renounce" The Order and flip his or her Order token over to the "former member" side; however, when they are a main player or ally against a member of The Order, their ships in the system being attacked count for the main player in The Order, and all such ships are sent to the warp upon their loss.

Begun as a simple religious retreat group for one of their species' six genders, The Order soon began to organize other events for all genders of their kind. Over the millennia, The Order also became the dominant force in their planet's economy and government. As they expand to other galaxies, The Order has decided to offer "open enrollment" in hopes of seeing peace and stability throughout the universe.

Main Player Only Optional
Start Turn Regroup Destiny Launch Alliance Planning Reveal Resolution

Wild: All ships belonging to you and your allies in the system being attacked count towards your total in this encounter.
Main Player Or Ally Only Resolution

Super: Order members cannot renounce their membership.
As Any Player Alliance




Notes: So a lot of wording was cleaned up here in order to jell with FFG wording and also to give more clarity and sometimes make shorter sentences. The Order is basically a very game-changing power, and in its original form was just too powerful. Requiring such a steep cost of 4 ships and 4 cards to break from the Order and have all your ships in a system count against you is just overkill. I added a Wild that I thought was keeping in the theme, as Bill's original has no Wild. Also I added some stuff about "Order tokens" to keep track of alliances. These would have an "Order member" side and a "former Order member side", to keep track of who is who. The main problem with this power is actually the amount of text it uses, and I am unsure how to shorten the sentences with adding rules loopholes. Overall I think this is an EXTREMELY good power in concept, uniqueness, practically and fun.

Thoughts?
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Jack Reda
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There's no reason for having 2 minutes to decide. It should be either yes or no, and then move on.

It feels like the Order would be quite dull to have in a 3 player game. Even in a 4 player game, it might be a non power. It's pretty easy for the other players to just say "shall we shut out the Order completely?"

If a player attacks the Order on the first turn, and doesn't join, it looks like the Order loses ALL of his ships (and colonies, and power) if he loses that encounter. Having 20 on defense is nice, but it's not unbeatable.

The Order seems like something that might be better as a moon effect or something else- not an alien.
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Ken H.
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I agree with Jack on all those points.

However, I do really like the idea of a power that offers/forces a permanant status on other players, and then gains some advantage when dealing with players that have that status.
 
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Just a Bill
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Agree with Jack. This thing is wordy, complicated, confusing, and leaking all over the place. (Though I completely missed the "lose everything on turn 1" angle; good catch, Jack.)

Rubric wrote:
However, I do really like the idea of a power that offers/forces a permanant status on other players, and then gains some advantage when dealing with players that have that status.
The Warp wrote:
seems like something that might be better as a moon effect or something else- not an alien.

Keep an eye on the upcoming PBF #5 in the Play by Forum forum; I've got a couple of new hazards that force semi-permanent special relationships upon pairs of players.
 
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Chris O
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The Warp wrote:
There's no reason for having 2 minutes to decide. It should be either yes or no, and then move on.

It feels like the Order would be quite dull to have in a 3 player game. Even in a 4 player game, it might be a non power. It's pretty easy for the other players to just say "shall we shut out the Order completely?"

If a player attacks the Order on the first turn, and doesn't join, it looks like the Order loses ALL of his ships (and colonies, and power) if he loses that encounter. Having 20 on defense is nice, but it's not unbeatable.

The Order seems like something that might be better as a moon effect or something else- not an alien.


To a degree, I see your point, and agree with the 2 minute thing, that was just a carry-over from Bill. I'll edit that.

All players will not shut The Order out precisely because of the fact that there will be people leading in score and people lagging behind, and it is VERY tempting for a player who is far behind to join the order for a shot to win the game with minimal colonies.

As for the 20 defense thing and Order getting screwed at the start of the game, that does seem more possible the less players there are, but I definitely would not want to see something like this become a moon effect.

I see this power as an interesting version of Toady that is less self-serving and more all-encompassing. It just needs refining I think. I do like Toady though, but not as currently written, which is why I rewrote it to be able to switch "lords" on your turn in the "Sycophant" thread.

I'll see what others think.
 
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Jack Reda
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I playtested Toady back for Mayfair, and it received an "okay" from our group. No one hated it, but no one particularly liked it, and it didn't pass our "would you rather have Toady than any of these powers you chose in the last 5 games you played".
 
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Chris O
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The Warp wrote:
I playtested Toady back for Mayfair, and it received an "okay" from our group. No one hated it, but no one particularly liked it, and it didn't pass our "would you rather have Toady than any of these powers you chose in the last 5 games you played".


Toady as written isn't something I would like to play, but with a little editing I think becomes really good.

Tell me what you think: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/732815/sycophant-a-toady...
 
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Mil Myman
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What's the advantage to the player with this power? The only thing that I can see is that he gets to issue the invitations. But that doesn't seem to help much. And what happens when the The Order loses his power? Does the The Order's The Order cease to exist? Or does the The Order simply no longer have the ability to invite new members?

And if another alien gets published with an extraneous "The" in it's name, someone needs to get smacked hard.
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