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Subject: Escort agencies in Europe - what know about them? rss

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Greg Debs
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I want to go to Europe. I would like to visit countries such as England, France and Germany.
In addition to the pleasures of travel, I would like to get more pleasure from sex.
I want to find the VIP girls. Where do I go? where the pre-order? You applied sometime in the escort agency?
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Wade Nelson
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Why are not everyone requiring escort agencies in Europe? How's want boots?
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Liam
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You sound really classy.

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Eric Schiedler
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Sampas wrote:
I want to go to Europe. I would like to visit countries such as England, France and Germany.
In addition to the pleasures of travel, I would like to get more pleasure from sex.
I want to find the VIP girls. Where do I go? where the pre-order? You applied sometime in the escort agency?


I'm sure an internet search would be very effective (and it would not turn up RSP as a bevy of information!).

However, please consider that female trafficking is very real and prevalent throughout the world and how your trip may impact that part of the criminal underworld.

Other than that, safe travels.
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Jeremy London
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wadenels wrote:
Why are not everyone requiring escort agencies in Europe? How's want bootsboobs?

FTFY
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Adrian Hague
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England: Prostitution is illegal
France: They are currently making prostitution illegal.
Gremany: I'd guess that prostitution is illegal.
Spain: Go looking for 'Nightclubs' (as opposed to 'Disco'). There you can 'rub tummies' 'till the cows come home.

What other cultural highlights pique your interest, fine art, architecture, stunning scenery? shake
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In some European countries prostitution isn't illegal.

However, being a revolting human being that doesn't care about human trafficking is legal throughout Europe.
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Jack Smith
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AdrianPHague wrote:
England: Prostitution is illegal
France: They are currently making prostitution illegal.
Gremany: I'd guess that prostitution is illegal.
Spain: Go looking for 'Nightclubs' (as opposed to 'Disco'). There you can 'rub tummies' 'till the cows come home.

What other cultural highlights pique your interest, fine art, architecture, stunning scenery? :shake:


Prostituting is not Illegal. Soliciting and living off immoral earnings is. Anyway the Op is clearly a troll.
 
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Adrian Hague
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Sure looks that way. The account was created today.
 
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Holger Hannemann
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AdrianPHague wrote:
England: Prostitution is illegal
France: They are currently making prostitution illegal.
Gremany: I'd guess that prostitution is illegal.
Spain: Go looking for 'Nightclubs' (as opposed to 'Disco'). There you can 'rub tummies' 'till the cows come home.

What other cultural highlights pique your interest, fine art, architecture, stunning scenery? :shake:


Actually, Germany protects their prostitutes quite well. They get health care, mandatory health checks etc. They even get a pension plan if they work for a registered institution. That proposition was passed in 1998 when the socialists/green party took over.

If that post is real then Amsterdam is the place to go. From what I've heard you should bring a ton of money, though!
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Jasper
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The MatrixCube wrote:
AdrianPHague wrote:
England: Prostitution is illegal
France: They are currently making prostitution illegal.
Gremany: I'd guess that prostitution is illegal.
Spain: Go looking for 'Nightclubs' (as opposed to 'Disco'). There you can 'rub tummies' 'till the cows come home.

What other cultural highlights pique your interest, fine art, architecture, stunning scenery? shake


Actually, Germany protects their prostitutes quite well. They get health care, mandatory health checks etc. They even get a pension plan if they work for a registered institution. That proposition was passed in 1998 when the socialists/green party took over.

If that post is real then Amsterdam is the place to go. From what I've heard you should bring a ton of money, though!
Euro 50 suck & fuck. Just like in Germany theoreticaly all prostitutes get health care (everyone gets that anyway), helath checks and pay taxes. Off the books, there is still quite a bit of human trafficking and abuse going on.

Mind you, less than if prostituting or visiting prostitutes would be illegal, but by no means absent.
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Paul DeStefano
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Not being someone who ever delved into such things...

Are escort services EVER not for sex?
 
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Holger Hannemann
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Venga2 wrote:
Euro 50 suck & fuck. Just like in Germany theoreticaly all prostitutes get health care (everyone gets that anyway), helath checks and pay taxes. Off the books, there is still quite a bit of human trafficking and abuse going on.

Mind you, less than if prostituting or visiting prostitutes would be illegal, but by no means absent.


Yes, that's probably true, and that's a horrible thing.

I personally find prostitution disgusting but no matter what I think about it it certainly has its place in society. There's a reason why it's called "the oldest business in the world" (or maybe that's just a German saying), and I'd rather have it well controlled.
And for people who want to give it a try I guess a 50 Euro health-checked professional is a better choice than a 5 Euro crack-whore.
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Adrian Hague
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Geosphere wrote:
Not being someone who ever delved into such things...

Are escort services EVER not for sex?

Well, there's a bloke down the road who services these:
.. but I don't think he refers to himself as an 'agency' per se...
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Geosphere wrote:
Not being someone who ever delved into such things...

Are escort services EVER not for sex?

Well, I've used them to find a Paths of Glory opponent. Truth be told, it wasn't a satisfying game.
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Venga2 wrote:
Mind you, less than if prostituting or visiting prostitutes would be illegal, but by no means absent.


It's obviously difficult to measure these things exactly, but Amsterdam is one of the top destinations for human trafficking in the world. So it's a long way from absent.

(I'm pretty sure that stat comes from here: http://www.unodc.org/documents/human-trafficking/Global_Repo... but it's a big report and I haven't been able to find the specific reference.)
 
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Dolphinandrew wrote:
Venga2 wrote:
Mind you, less than if prostituting or visiting prostitutes would be illegal, but by no means absent.


It's obviously difficult to measure these things exactly, but Amsterdam is one of the top destinations for human trafficking in the world. So it's a long way from absent.
That is exactly what I said.
 
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How do you think the sex workers feel?

Excepts from the paper Men Who Buy Sex (2009) identifying that in their study, men who buy sex often fail to empathize with the sex worker either wrongly assuming that they are enjoying the experience or failing to recognize the other person as a human being at all.

Quote:
Only 9% of the women in Kramer’s (2003) study indicated that they had any positive feelings at all during acts of prostitution. More commonly, Kramer’s interviewees described feeling sad, detached, angry or anxious when prostituting.

Of the words used by the interviewees to describe what they assumed were the sex workers' feelings during prostitution, 33% were negative. By contrast, Kramer’s study of the women themselves found that 77% of the time the women experienced a negative emotional state.

Some men understood the dissociation necessary to perform prostitution, using some of the same negative words that women have used to describe their experiences of prostitution: “they are trying to blank their minds,” “disconnected,” “attempting to switch off or distance herself,” “empty,” and “hurry up, and get the fuck out of my head.” Other negative words that the men used to describe how the women might feel included “disgusted,” “miserable,” “dirty,” “hatred,” “scared,” “physically and mentally painful,” and “relief that I’m not going to
kill her.”


What do you think the sex workers backgrounds are like?

Lets compare what the men who buy sex think about the sex workers' backgrounds against the academic literature on sex workers' backgrounds.

Quote:
4.11 Awareness of childhood abuse

Thirty-two per cent of the 103 buyers estimated that relatively few (0-20%) women in prostitution were abused as children, even as 34% of the interviewees estimated that between 30-40% of all women in prostitution were, and 35% thought that 50-90% were.

In fact, an overwhelming majority of women in all forms of prostitution have been sexually abused as children (Silbert and Pines, 1982a; Nadon et al., 1998). Some estimates are as high as 90%. As one woman explained, “Through childhood sexual abuse, many prostituted women have become conditioned into thinking that this is their choice… It normalises this kind of behaviour and causes many to enter into the trade” (Aumord, 2009).

4.12 Awareness of homelessness


The men expressed varying degrees of awareness that a majority of women in prostitution are currently or recently homeless. Eighteen per cent of interviewees estimated that 50-90% of all prostitutes were homeless; 26% estimated that 30-40% were homeless, and 46% estimated that 10-20% of all prostitutes were homeless. Eleven per cent of the men believed that no prostitutes were homeless.

Research has shown that there is a 75% rate of current or past homelessness among those prostituted in nine countries (Farley et al., 2003).

4.13 Awareness of the psychological damage caused by prostitution

There is extensive literature documenting that prostitution causes profound emotional damage (Baldwin, 1992; Barry, 1995; Dworkin, 1997; Herman, 2003; Hoigard and Finstad, 1986; Farley et al., 2003; Raymond et al., 2002).

Forty-four per cent of the men believed that prostitution had a very or extremely negative effect on the prostitute. Only 19% felt that prostitution had a very or extremely positive effect on the prostitute. The positive effect they referred to was primarily a financial benefit. One interviewee explained, “There’s an intimacy in all sex, even if it’s only a small part of sex and if you give it away to loads of men there’s not much left. It’s about giving a piece of yourself away and there’s not much left.” Another: “Once they’ve had sex for money they lose morals or values in themselves which affect their everyday life and their value of other things as well.”

Some of the interviewees described the psychological damage resulting from prostitution in detail. One man understood the emotional numbing that results from prostitution. “They don’t feel anything. Their lifestyle generally makes them insensitive to warmth.” Another described complex posttraumatic disorder, a psychological condition that results from chronic traumatic stress. Prostitution “changes the person when she does it,” he said. “It changes how she looks into the world.”

However, a number of these men felt that women in prostitution had intrinsic qualities that made them different from other women and they were not aware of the specific psychological harms caused by prostitution. As a result of sexual exploitation and violence before and during prostitution, women, men and the transgendered in prostitution are known to suffer from depression, traumatic stress and other anxiety disorders, dissociative disorders, eating disorders and others (Farley et al., 2003).

“Their mind is twisted, or they’re like used,” said one man. “They’ve seen everything already. Their mind is opened up – they have no guards up.” Blaming the woman for her prostitution, another man said, “The very fact that they’re prepared to do that job where others won’t even if skint, there’s some capability inside them that permits them to do it, to not be disgusted by this, a normal woman would be if she was asked to do it.”

4.14 Awareness of pimping, trafficking and coercive control

Forty-eight per cent of 103 London men said they believed that most women in prostitution are victims of pimps, reflecting a reality that converges with what is known from observation and research studies (Boyer, 2008; DiPaolo, 1999; Giobbe, 1993; Herman, 2003; Ling et al., 2007; Raphael and Shapiro, 2002; Silbert and Pines, 1982; Vanwesenbeeck et al, 1995; West et al., 2000).

“Prostitution is forced on her,” explained one man, “not always physically, but definitely mentally. To convince her to do a job she doesn’t want to do, you must be a good manipulator.” A number of the men reported in-depth information about pimps. “The pimp does the psychological raping of the woman,” explained one. “The pimps treat them very harsh; they have no freedom and they have to ask for everything.”

Fifty per cent of interviewees said that they had used a woman in prostitution who they knew was under the control of a pimp. As one man explained, “It’s like he’s her owner.”...

Some of the men described pimps as abusive, controlling, opportunistic, coercive and violent. They described beatings and forced addiction. “Pimps get their money and abuse them. They have no respect for them at all. They treat them virtually like dogs.” One man explained, “Some are really made to or forced – like raped – and they find there is no other hope for them. Some are being held hostage and in a brothel, not all of them but in situations where she is looking to get out. I felt a little bit guilty when I was in saunas and massage parlours."...

Of the men interviewed, 55% believed that a majority of women in prostitution were lured, tricked or trafficked. Thirty-six per cent said they thought that the women in prostitution they used had been trafficked to London from another country.


How will you feel after paying for sex?

Quote:
Men who buy sex after the sex

Asked to describe their own feelings before and after the acts of prostitution, the men listed equal numbers of neutral feelings before and after (15% in each case). However, their emotions tended to shift in a negative direction after prostitution transactions. After prostitution, the men listed fewer positive words and a greater number of negative words. Examples of the words and phrases men used to describe their own feelings after using a woman in prostitution included: “I’m not satisfied in my mind,” “looking for more partner satisfaction,” “regretful and remorseful,” “disappointed – what a waste of money,” “angry at myself,” “morally at odds,” “confused,” “lonely – still,” “psychologically dirty,”

A significant majority (71%) of the men interviewed for this study reported that they have some degree of guilt, shame or negative feelings about paying for sex.


Conclusion

Buying sex is not a neutral activity. While not every sex worker is forced into it or harmed by it most are likely to be harmed in some way through the activity, whether physical harm, emotional harm or different forms of social harm. There is no way to know the background of who you are paying for sex - escort, elite or professional or VIP or whatever the marketing says, the empirical data suggests that this human being is likely to be suffering and paying them for sex is likely to compound suffering.

One of the startling, or not so startling, outcomes of the above study was finding the men who buy sex often do so to protect others from their 'uncontrollable desire' - a fear that they might rape or sexually harm someone if they did not switch off their sexuality through sexual release.

I understand the sexual urge but you have to take responsibility for your actions and I believe you have to do the right things in life to be happy. Are you happy now? People who visit prostitutes are likely causing and experiencing suffering. Seeking help for addictions or unwanted behavior is the best course of action, seek 'psychosexual' support. I wish you well.
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Venga2 wrote:
Dolphinandrew wrote:
Venga2 wrote:
Mind you, less than if prostituting or visiting prostitutes would be illegal, but by no means absent.


It's obviously difficult to measure these things exactly, but Amsterdam is one of the top destinations for human trafficking in the world. So it's a long way from absent.
That is exactly what I said.


You implied it would be more if prostitution were illegal. That's not really clear.
 
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Dolphinandrew wrote:
Venga2 wrote:
Dolphinandrew wrote:
Venga2 wrote:
Mind you, less than if prostituting or visiting prostitutes would be illegal, but by no means absent.


It's obviously difficult to measure these things exactly, but Amsterdam is one of the top destinations for human trafficking in the world. So it's a long way from absent.
That is exactly what I said.


You implied it would be more if prostitution were illegal. That's not really clear.
You'd probably have to view it in the frame of the size and relative visibility of the red light district, That said, you are right that it is bit backed up by hard data (as far as I know), but also I think not an unreasonable assumption.
 
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Matthew Horton
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Geosphere wrote:
Not being someone who ever delved into such things...
Are escort services EVER not for sex?


I read an article recently (can't remember where or when, UK newspaper if you love specificity like I do) about escort transactions involving middle aged women hiring younger male escorts. Apparently there is a reasonable trade in this and it was claimed that only a minority of the trade involved sex.
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MyTwoCents wrote:

I've never been with a prostitute, but it occurs to me as a man who likes women AND thinks their bodies are marvellous playgrounds that if I DID go to a prostitute I could give her 30 minutes in her working day that wasn't entirely miserable, as I wouldn't treat her like shit. Given that prostitution always has and always will exist, maybe its the moral duty of all decent (and attractive) men to visit them as much as possible and take a little of the misery out of their day?


You sound like one of the respondents in the study. Empirically paying for sex is a good way of treating someone like shit. You miss the point entirely and frankly come across either very odd or with a poor sense of humour.

Again:

77% of men who bought sex felt that the woman was having a positive or neutral experience (Men who buy sex 2009)

Kramer's study (2003) on sex workers identified that 77% of sex workers reported having a negative experience when selling sex.
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MyTwoCents wrote:
monkeyhandz wrote:
the empirical data suggests that this human being is likely to be suffering and paying them for sex is likely to compound suffering


Can you explain how NOT paying them IMPROVES their lives? It strikes me that prostitution is a symptom, not a cause of anything.


Paying someone for sex is linked to multiple forms of harm. Not paying for sex stops these forms of harm. Clearly many people who become sex workers have other problems that need to be addressed but encouraging them to take part in risky and harmful behaviour logically does not solve these problems.

Prostitution may be a symptom of some other phenomenon but as a symptom it has been identified empirically to cause multiple forms of additional harm.

Please read the study.
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Quote:
How does being POOR sex workers help them? They aren't going to stop because they get slightly less customers, are they?


Unfortunately helping sex workers leave the trade is very difficult.

My comments are largely aimed at the OP and why men should not buy sex. It's not a neutral activity. Like you are doing, his whole discourse presented the sex trade in a neutral to favourable light, failing to recognise and reflect upon the harm and suffering that the trade entails.

Stopping the sex trade is more about stopping demand, educating men who pay for sex on the harm it causes and educating sex workers, helping them into more stable forms of work and tackling underlying problems.

Reducing the demand is one key part of this. Reduced demand reduces the profitability of trafficking and forced prostitution. If no one was willing to buy sex, people would not sell it.

Finally, most sex workers are already poor, with low living standards and statistically more likely to take part in additional risky behaviour, be the victims of crime and have a higher suicide rate. Paying for sex enables the lifestyle and invests in further future harm.

The reason why it is the 'oldest profession in the world' is that people continue to be willing to buy sex.
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MyTwoCents wrote:
monkeyhandz wrote:
the empirical data suggests that this human being is likely to be suffering and paying them for sex is likely to compound suffering



Can you explain how NOT paying them IMPROVES their lives? It strikes me that prostitution is a symptom, not a cause of anything.
If you don't spend your 50 € on a shag, then you spend them on something else. That something needs to be produced and delivered, and creates jobs somewhere. Demand for 10 less sex workers in the red light district means demand for 1 more waiter, 1 more taxi driver, 1 more ...
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