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Subject: Face-down coins and payments rss

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Darrell Goodridge
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So I browsed 39 pages of the Rules forum and didn't see one similar to this question, so here goes.

So you're supposed to keep all your coins face-down. And you're supposed to put a coin on each race you skip. Does this mean you could put a value-10 coin on a race potentially? Do you just shuffle your coins and choose randomly? or are you supposed to put your coins in a "queue" like the Vassal version?
 
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Andrew
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You put 1VP worth of coins on each race/power combo you skip, not one physical coin.
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Andy Leber
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Facedown doesn't mean to keep them secret from yourself... just hidden from other players view. You can "peek" at them all you want.

So for skipping races just look at the coins and find a single. Same if you need to make change with the bank, which I find is quite frequent.
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Cast Ll'tor
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I still don't know why people want to play this game with hidden money.

There's no stealing, trading or random selection of coins. They are like victory points.

You could (if you wanted to) keep track of how many coins each player gets on each turn, and how many they are spending should they choose to skip a race.

I'll always play this game with open coins. Otherwise, it'll just slow down with people keeping trackwith a pen and paper.

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Tiwaz Tyrsfist
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Because not everyone has a photographic memory, or the memory to count cards, nor the anal retentive streak necessary to watch and count every single coin each other player gets and spends.

So, hidden coins means that the other players have a harder time knowing exactly how many VP each player has. This, in turn, prevents them automatically going "A-HA, Bob has the most VP, therefore I will RAEP ALL HIS LANDS AND BURN HIS WOMEN!"

Hidden VP means that you don't get crushed by three other people in a row just because you happen to be 5 VP up at the start of round 6.
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Paul W
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Open vs closed scoring has already been discussed ad naseum elsewhere. Short version:

- If you're going to write down/memorize the scores anyway, you may as well play scoring open to speed things up.

- If the idea of making a decision without having full knowledge of every possible implication of the decision disturbs you, play with open scoring.

- If you don't care if you occasionally make a sub-optimal move because of a scoring misperception, play with closed scoring.

- If you prefer to play with people who play intuitively instead of wanting to calculate the exact outcome of every possible move, play with closed scoring.
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Dave C
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We just play... if someone keeps his coins private.. so be it.. it they are public.. so be it.. we just play to play.
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Eddie the Cranky Gamer
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It eliminates the analysis paralysis that was very common in Vinci.

Also, newer powers (might be in Underground?) get into stealing territory.
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Andy Leber
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Yeah, we often have a sense of who's most likely in the lead, but we've been surprised at the end of the game on many occasions too.

Also, we don't want people spending 20 minutes on their last turn counting every last victory point in everyones hand, and going through every single scenario of combat before taking their final turn.
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David Millette
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Agreed. It also adds to the fun not knowing who is winning and by how much. Part of the fun with my kids was adding up the coins in the end to see who won the game. I honestly didn't know before counting. I lost by one darn coin. My kids really enjoyed that part...
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Jeff Dunford
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In my last game (5 players), hidden coin values mattered. Four of us were back-and-forth for the entire game. One had Commando Sorcerers, so it was the duty of a few others to keep him in check. The fifth player was quietly playing her first game... started with Halflings (I don't remember the special power; it seemed innocent) and was scoring 5-6 points per turn while the rest of us were scoring 6-9. Later in the game, she picked up Swamp Dwarves, and her final race was Cursed Giants. Nobody paid attention, since she seemed to be scoring so few points per turn. When we revealed our scores, I had 62, the player on my left had 61, the player to her left had 60, and the guy who had kept Commando Sorcerers all game had 59. Then the Halfling/Dwarf/Cursed player says "I've got 67." We all swung around in our chairs with jaws drooping. We hadn't considered how many VPs she scooped up when she claimed those weak races (4 or 5 VPs on the Dwarves and 6 VPs on the Cursed race), because we were blinded by powerful races and end-of-turn scores.

Had we seen her VP count (or been counting carefully), we would have made an effort to keep those Dwarves/Giants from picking up points in the last few of rounds.
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Stu Skywalker wrote:
I still don't know why people want to play this game with hidden money.

There's no stealing, trading or random selection of coins. They are like victory points.

You could (if you wanted to) keep track of how many coins each player gets on each turn, and how many they are spending should they choose to skip a race.

I'll always play this game with open coins. Otherwise, it'll just slow down with people keeping trackwith a pen and paper.



[sigh]

IMO, that last statement is silly and outside the rules and parameters of game play. Why would you allow players to write down anything during this game? Where does it state in the rules you can do this? Or are you one of those guys thats going to claim if it's not explicitly in the rules that you can't do something then you can do it?

I don't get it.
 
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