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Fortune and Glory: The Cliffhanger Game» Forums » General

Subject: Winning Percentage? rss

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Chris C
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I've played four games now - discard games 1 & 2 (for which I had the test rules, among others, wrong, i.e. I wasn't re-rolling if I had 1+ success on the initial roll), game 3 was a humiliating defeat (four players....villains 15, heroes 10 fortune), and game 4 was an overwhelming victory for our heroes (though we did forget about the Villain Events for 5 Rounds, and the Nazi Villains showed up without their henchman). Considering that I don't think we've played a complete game yet (one that utilizes all the rules correctly), I'm not really sure what to expect from the game - for the two games that were played mostly correct, we had widely varying results. We were soundly defeated and soundly victorious. Considering this game is highly influenced by lady luck, is this the type of game play I should regularly expect, or should games generally be fairly tight? Note that even though the fourth game was a significant win for the heroes, except for the last round it always felt competitive as the heroes had to destroy Outposts regularly to keep the villains in check, and there was a lot of risky pressing-on in the hopes of getting a fight round or two against the villain and knocking him (or her) out of game play for a few rounds.
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Don
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What I find with this game and with some other FFP games is that its not all luck (sort of). Early on I thought it was only luck until I realized that there are some subtle strategic choices that you can make. For example, most people try to avoid the Zeppelin. But it can be a cash cow if you are lagging behind. Or it becomes something that you want to keep your opponents from if you are in the lead. And of course, choosing certain courses according to your character's strengths is a strategy that allows you to make the most of your luck during gameplay.

Another thing to keep in mind is that luck is fickle. I've had a couple of games where it seemed that a player was clearly in the lead and was going to run away with the game. But a few bad rolls or card draws later and someone else sneaks by for the win.

That sort of uncertainty is what I think this game is all about. Other games may be deeper but this game gives you the same edge of your seat excitement, frustration and exhilaration that you get if you were living an Indiana Jones movie.

One other thing I should mention and another thing I love about this game is that it is scalable. If you find it too easy, try increasing the Fortune you need to win or decreasing the points the Villains need to win. If its too hard, try decreasing the Fortune and/or increasing the Villain Track points needed. If the game is too long or short you can do the same thing.

I find that my games are a mix of easy, hard and close. It's not knowing which that makes it interesting. Or, I think I know which it'll be and then it changes like a plot twist in a movie.

Happy gaming and let yourself be immersed in the theme.
 
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Matt Smith
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Of the co-op/solo games I've played, some have been close, and other have been easy wins/defeats. Most games have felt competitive, so I think it's the odd game that is a runaway.
 
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Rob "COINFLIP" Seulowitz
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Having played a few competitive games and several solo/co-op games, there's an aspect of "winning" that feels a bit anti-climactic.

As written, the game is a race to amass points - which is perfectly fine, but the engine has all the best qualities of role-playing games (skills, characters, alignments etc). I'd like to see some scenarios that have a bit more narrative.

The kit already has built-in elements that can be easily exploited (have in fact been designed with this idea in mind) - for example, the types of treasures.

Some ideas that strike me:

* Use just the Armor and Weapon treasures, and play teams or against a Villain. Build up to a final "battle" using these items in some way.

* Start with 4 of the largest "Temples" with the lowest available Danger number cards. First to bring a Temple token to their home city wins.

* WW2 "Mostly Combat" Variant: Play against the Nazis but instead of 1 Secret Base start with 4 treasures secured by Secret Nazi Bases guarded by soldiers. Danger values indicate the number of Nazi Enemy fights you must win ("Escape" allows you to camp down but doesn't award you a success). Use the War Zeppelin as a Clock - if it reaches 10 Fortune before you recover the 4th treasure, the game ends (you lose). In this game, the Villains only show up as a result of Enemy cards and don't hunt for treasures.

The really cool thing about this game is that I can set all three of these up today.



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Bill H
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Dr.Robert wrote:
The really cool thing about this game is that I can set all three of these up today.

Please let us know how they play!
 
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Chris C
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As a quick follow-up to my own posting, I've had the opportunity to play the game two more times and have indeed seen a much more even "win" distribution - though I agree strongly with Dr. Robert's comment - the win does seem anti-climatic and is not really reflective of the individual battles that must be fought and won. Our last two games we won soundly....the Villain Track did not advance beyond 7 in either of our cooperative games (4 Players), but each fortune gained was wet with blood and sweat. Thanks all for your responses and here's looking forward to the expansion (which I know must be coming)!
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Tom Howard
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Thought I'd add my results thus far to this thread. I've played 4 coop games so far, each with 5-7 players. Although we've thoroughly enjoyed every game we've played, we completely trounced the villains each time. I don't think I've ever seen the Villain track go above 6 or 7. In last night's game we were able to secure 60+ Fortune and the Villain Track had only reached 2. Those two points were due to a Villain Event card and from collecting 3 Fortune.

I'm pretty confident we followed all the rules, including healing Villains each time they left the board, bringing along two bodyguards with Nazi Villains (who also add combat dice to the Villains' attack rolls), remembering to give the bonus from the War Zeppelin to adjacent Nazis, remembering to adjust the Villain Track whenever a Nazi Soldier needed to be placed on a pre-occupied location (or if there were no Nazi Soldiers left), etc etc.

Here are my observations on what made it easy for us:
1) We almost always had 2-3 people adventuring for an artifact together. Players could then exert for each other, and once the bodyguards were taken care of, Villains on the same adventure would be down 2-3 dice when searching for the artifact themselves.

2) With 6 people at the table, we typically had a nice selection of Event cards at our disposal, which allowed us to severely wound Villains, cancel Villain Event cards, and even prevent a Villain from collecting the artifact ("It's a Fake!").

3) We did reach a point where all the Nazi Soldiers were out on the board (due to the Zeppelin reaching its destination almost every round!), and we thought the Villain Track would start to take off at that point. However, we were fairly well geared by that time, and a couple of players elected to use their turns to go Nazi hunting around the map (Yes they could only each kill one soldier per round, but it was enough). The only time we were short on placing Nazi Soldiers was when they needed to be placed as Bodyguards – which worked in our favor!


Once again, we all love this game, and I'm not complaining about any of the rules. But it'd be that much better with some more tension and/or climax. Perhaps we've been lucky with our dice rolls? I will say that a couple of our players seem to roll 1's a lot, but even though they have a tough time with Danger Cards, they seem to always have an Event card or two, lol (plus they're usually teamed up with other players when adventuring). I'm gonna scope out the variants posted and see if I'd like to give them a shot. I've heard recommendations about doing competitive team games, and although I think my group would be down to try it, they seem to be much more fond of the fully cooperative style of games.
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Mike Clarke
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GeckoTH wrote:
Thought I'd add my results thus far to this thread. I've played 4 coop games so far, each with 5-7 players. Although we've thoroughly enjoyed every game we've played, we completely trounced the villains each time.

Couple of things. You can only exert when you're doing a cliffhanger which means you've lost the Glory from the previous Dangers.

When the Villains search, they get a Danger Marker for EACH roll of a 4,5,6. They don't just get one per adventure like the Heroes do.

If you're still doing it right, you could always try upping the Fortune you need to win or lowering the points the Nazis need to win until it's more competitive for your group. This is an official variant in the Optional Rules.
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Tom Howard
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Thanks for the response

mikecl wrote:

Couple of things. You can only exert when you're doing a cliffhanger which means you've lost the Glory from the previous Dangers.


Yup, we're aware that Glory earned from Danger Cards that turn are lost when you flip to a Cliffhanger, and that you can only Exert when on a Cliffhanger when you're by yourself. However, when 2 or more Adventurers are working together on an adventure, the ones not actually rolling for the test are able to exert at any time.

Pg. 23: Any Heroes present that are not the one
taking the current Test are allowed to Exert to
add extra Adventure Dice (even if it is not a
Cliffhanger).


So, when three of us are working together, we always have a bunch of extra dice (wounds) to throw at a danger card that's giving us problems before we have to succumb to the Cliffhanger.

Quote:

When the Villains search, they get a Danger Marker for EACH roll of a 4,5,6. They don't just get one per adventure like the Heroes do.


Right, we remembered that rule as well – but thanks for checking. The thing is, if there are 2-3 of us on an adventure with a Villain (and the Villain has no bodyguards), then they're only rolling around 2 dice per turn on average. And since typically only half of those rolls earn successes, the Villains are lucky to get more than 1 success on a turn.

The other part of this game we've never even tried yet is infiltrating an Enemy Base or the Zeppelin. I've been wanting to have that tension in the game where the Heroes really need to steal an artifact in order to win (or something along those lines). But thus far, there hasn't been any need to do it, since they only time a Villain has collected an Artifact is when it's so late in the game that they've got no chance of winning, lol.

I guess we'll experiment with adjusting the points needed for the Villains to win. On a 6 player game, perhaps trying to get 60 Fortune before the Villain Track reaches 10?
 
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Mike Clarke
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Wow. Well I learned something there. Somehow missed THAT rule (other players can exert at all times). And I see your point about cutting down Villain successes by having more players present.

But if you're all congregated on ONE treasure like that, doesn't that leave the others open for the other two Villains? (I'm assuming you're using three with that many players).

But yeah if you're that good I would try adjusting the points until the outcome is no longer certain.

Or you could try a competitive game AND include the co-op rules so the Nazis have their full organization going. That way you're competing with each other and the Nazis. (Official Variant from the rule book).

That should substantially up the difficulty.
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MoonSylver
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It's funny, in some threads the players are getting trounced by the Villains & in others the Heroes are doing the trouncing. It suddenly reminded me of the Heroes vs Zombies debates when LNOE first came out. laugh

All of my games have been pretty close so far. The Villains are usually pretty hard to contend with. In some games the only way we could hold them back was by destroying their bases or fighting their minions around the globe to keep them from maxing out, & in other games they won it because we didn’t get to their base quick enough.
---MS
 
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Mike Clarke
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M00NSYLVER wrote:
It's funny, in some threads the players are getting trounced by the Villains & in others the Heroes are doing the trouncing. It suddenly reminded me of the Heroes vs Zombies debates when LNOE first came out. laugh

All of my games have been pretty close so far. The Villains are usually pretty hard to contend with. In some games the only way we could hold them back was by destroying their bases or fighting their minions around the globe to keep them from maxing out, & in other games they won it because we didn’t get to their base quick enough.
---MS


I'd totally forgotten about that. I have LNOE and remember that debate. I guess it's the classic argument in nearly any game involving two major forces. In Merchants and Marauders, it was who has an advantage, the Merchant or the Pirate player?

Turns out after extensive playing, it's neither. I'm suspecting it's the same here. In any case I'm playing my third game competitive right now with the co-op rules so the full Nazi organization is in play and you know what? It's neck and neck right about a third of the way into the game. I've got 7 Fortune, my opponent, Five and the Nazi's 8. They've got a couple of 5 Fortune treasures so I think my next move is to attack the base, kill the soldier guarding it and claim the 5 points while setting them back D3.

Otherwise they could very well win. My opponent is probably contemplating the same move. I'll find out when we resume playing tonight.
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Tom Howard
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I guess that sounds about right. There are a lot of variables at play (plenty of them being random), where huge swings in either direction are to be expected, I suppose. Personally, I'd be interested in trying out Competitive or Team games, with or without Villains involved – though I know my group is much more in favor of the Coop scene. I'm guessing that the Villains will overrun us sooner or later.
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