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Subject: Artillery Spotter Correction Distance. Problem #5 rss

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Michael Power
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From the perspective of a consolidated rule book of Squad Leader and its three modules, the below listed question arises regarding Off Board Artillery. First the relevant rules:

107.5 (1st sentence):
Regardless of the time frame of the scenario an artillery spotter may correct (46.31) his off-board artillery a maximum of 18 hexes (instead of the previous 3 hex limit of the basic game) provided the leader with radio contact has a clear LOS to both the hex in which the fire is intended to land and the hex it currently occupies.

46.3:
In the first and all succeeding Rally Phases following placement of the initial Spotting Round either player (providing his radio contact is maintained) may perform 1 of 4 operations:

46.31:
He may openly correct his artillery up to 3 hexes in the direction(s) of his choice by moving his red spotting round 3 hexes in any manner; OR

46.32:
He may leave his red spotting round where it is or move it up to 3 hexes; and replace it (flip it over) with a FFE counter; OR

46.33:
He may move an already placed FFE counter up to 3 hexes in the direction(s) of his choice, or replace it with a red spotting round and move it up to 3 hexes; OR

107.5 alters spotter correction of off-board artillery out to 18 hexes instead of 3 hexes described by 46.31. Yet, 46.32 and 46.33 also deal with spotter corrections in the 3 hex range. If 107.5 had referred to 46.3 instead of 46.31, I would not have a question here. But, it appears as if 46.32 and 46.33 are left out of the 18 hex correction range which does not appear justified since a correction is a correction and should apply to all. So, the question is does the 18 hex correction range apply only to 46.31 or to 46.32 and 46.33 also? This question may appear to be nitpicking, but in my endeavor to consolidate these rules, I have found in the main the designers to be precise in their descriptions. I want to avoid a situation where I would step in and make alterations as I interpret them.

Michael Power
Virginia Beach, Virginia
USA
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Scott B
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Re: Artillery Spotter Correction Distance
hi mike,

i think 107.5 covers that further down...

"Corrections are no longer guaranteed to place a FFE or SR in the desired hex however and an accuracy die roll (46.21) is necessary"

Importantly, the order must be correct and replace the AR/FFE first and then roll for Accuracy. Now a FFE may land off target and cost the player a fire mission.

Scott
 
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Michael Power
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Re: Artillery Spotter Correction Distance
Scott,

I agree. But in those situations were corrections are possible, can one make that "18-hex" correction in regards to 46.32 and 46.33. A reading of 107.5 allows it for 46.31. Seems that the other two situations should allow for it. Thoughts?
 
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troy martin
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Re: Artillery Spotter Correction Distance
I have 3 copies of SL, 2 copies of CO and 1 copy of COD for sale.

I want to sell SL as a trio.

I have taken excellent care of my sets.
 
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Scott B
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Re: Artillery Spotter Correction Distance
hi mike,

in my opinion, it applies to all of them. 46.3 tell you what can be corrected (SR/FFE) and 107.5 extends the range to 18 hexes.

I've never heard of anyone taking a different position.

S
 
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Michael Power
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Re: Artillery Spotter Correction Distance
sbramley1967 wrote:
hi mike,

in my opinion, it applies to all of them. 46.3 tell you what can be corrected (SR/FFE) and 107.5 extends the range to 18 hexes.

I've never heard of anyone taking a different position.

S


Scott,

Roger that. I'm wi'choo on this. However, seeing "(46.31)" in the first sentence of 107.5 is causing me to hesitate before I accord its applicability to 46.32 and 46.33. Hence, this thread for input from the community.
 
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G. Harding Warren
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Re: Artillery Spotter Correction Distance
Hello fellas. I have a possible counterargument (that might be totally wrong).

It seems to me that there should be a presumption *against* typographical error if there is a way that the plain reading of the rules would make sense. It appears that we are assuming a typo or oversight--that the reference in 107.5 should refer to "46.3" [which would include 46.31, 46.32 and 46.33] instead of just "46.31". But I think that the rule as typed has a logic to it.

We are dealing with correcting shots over very large areas. Corrections that would have required a substantial commitment of time. I think there really is a distinction between correcting (A) only the things set forth in 46.31 (which is to say, SRs) over big, 18-hex distances; versus (B) correcting the things set forth in 46.32 and 46.33 (which is to say, FFEs or SRs which will immediately become FFEs) over big, 18-hex distances. This is not rhetorical, so correct me if I'm wrong: Aren't SRs just quick little shots used to see where the big loads will go? Doesn't it take a bit more time to load up for the big FFEs?

I think of 46.31 dealing with the situation where some army lieutenant is watching a SR go off and then saying, "screw this, that is a stupid target. Let's shoot way over there, where that building is---18 hexes away." Then they take some time to adjust the howitzer, then fire off another little SR. Perhaps that second SR lands near the building and all is well. He orders the full FFE and they load up for the big blast at the first opportunity they get (next turn).

I think of 46.32 dealing with the situation where our lieutenant sees the SR and says "ok guys, that was pretty good, but when you do the full volley, can you try a little to the left?" So he moves his SR up to 3 hexes and flips it over with a FFE. That doesn't take much time--just a nudge or so on the tube.

If, however, 46.32 were incorporated in the 18 hex rule, the lieutenant is saying "no, this is totally the wrong f-ing area. Shoot way the hell over there and give it everything you got." Well, won't it take a while to re-aim those guns and load them for bear? Can this really be done in the same phase? I think the same logic holds true for 46.33, which deals with already-placed FFE counters.

If you could move FFEs 18 hexes (as you would do in 46.33) or SRs 18 hexes and then flip them (as in 45.32) to FFEs, why would you ever simply move the SR 18 hexes without flipping it (as you would do in 46.31?)

Just a thought. Don't hesitate to shoot it down.

 
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Scott B
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Re: Artillery Spotter Correction Distance
I agree, it is a confusing rule reference.

IMHO, 46.31 does not stand alone but is connected to the other rules with "OR." these rules should be taken as a whole.

Also, the example of 107.5 shows a correction of "the SR or FFE." its explicitly allowed in the rules,

S
 
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T. Dauphin
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Re: Artillery Spotter Correction Distance
I agree with Scott.
I believe the intent is for it to apply to all instances.
re GHW's description, modifications after the intial spotting round were quite precise and easy enough to do. The amount of time to adjust it 120 yards vs 1000 yards was insignificant.

Ted
 
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