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Subject: Copenhagen campaign, 5th report, early version. rss

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allan wielund
Denmark
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We played august 1807 - february 1808 a couple of weeks ago, but in postgame discussions we hit a snag as the sides disagree about the contents of a deal to buy off the spanish with english surrender.

The coalition thinks Spain has been paid to stay out of the war alltogether, whereas the spanish player and his allies thinks that Spain has simply accepted english surrender and is free to declare war on Englands partners.
I see no ill will, only misinterpretation. Unfortunately the treaty was not put on paper. soblue

No compromise seems possible - Spain is either in or out of the war.
So I have suggested that we backtrack and replay all actions involving England, Turkey, Spain + the french and russian navy. We need that so noone will feel cheated. France (my brother) supports that idea. I expect that to take up half of our next session.


On the continent the war between France and Austria-Prussia-Russia has commenced and in february 1808 Napoleon inflicted a stinging defeat on my austrian army (probe vs cordon) while also taking Venice and it´s garrison of 20 ... a disastrous month for me, losing over 50 factors in exchange for a dozen french.
This will not be backtracked, France will not be robbed of such a great victory.


I have written a full report of the gaming, but it will be revised because of the backtracking, and then posted.


Our England player has exams in january, so next playdate is in late january/early february.
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Daniel Hammond
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Only peace conditions are enforceable. So if England surrendered to Spain with a play nice side deal and Spain doesn't want to play nice he doesn't have to (except for the part where he can't attack England because of the enforced peace). I remember installing a treaty rule back when I first played, the gist of it was both players sign an agreement for no political points and it was -1 political point to break the deal (while in effect) and also an excuse to break an alliance (both players had to pay that cost though but at the discretion of the player who got betrayed).
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Ken
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I'm with Daniel - I'm not seeing the problem here. Spain can promise whatever he wants as a part of a deal, but he's under no obligation to follow-through on that. Why backtrack? If that means that he violates the terms of the deal the British thought they had, that's just tough noogies - he shouldn't have gone to peace without knowing. And even if Spain did promise something as a part of a deal, the rules are absolutely clear - the only terms that are enforceable are the terms that are a part of a formal peace. Everything else is just talk.

I wouldn't permit any backtracking. If Spain got a surrender and then decided to declare war anyway, that's not a "snag." That's diplomacy in EiA. Don't surrender unless you're prepared to get screwed.
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Warren Bruhn
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Interesting choice that the Copenhagen group is making about replaying part of the last session. First I've ever heard of that being done in an EiA campaign.
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allan wielund
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Sorry for the long absence, our game has hibernated during the holidays and exams. But we will be playing on monday, 1 week from now.

I doubt that the replay will decide the final outcome of the war, because France and friends will win this war unless he runs into a tide of bad luck.

Why replay a situation ?


It´s not playing by the rules, but it´s about keeping everyone happy and avoid grudges. Like in football (soccer) when a player kicks the ball out of play because an opponent is down, even though he is not obliged to do that.

Also - if the Spain player made a conscious decision to screw another player, then that would be part of the game and everyone would have to live with that decision. But this was an honest misunderstanding. He did not intend to screw England and if he had understood what he agreed to, then he would not have made the deal.

We simply decided to spend those extra 2-3 hours backtracking and move on from a point everyone could agree on, rather than risk someone holding a grude and perhaps lose interest in the game.

For experienced players there is no mercy, like when Prussia left half his army under Hohenlohe within Napoleons reach in our current campaign.
But we usually allow inexperienced players to backtrack and replay if no battles have been fought since the mistake was made. It sounds time-consuming, but it actually allows players to play faster without doublechecking everything.
I once played a campaign in a group that showed no mercy for rookie mistakes. As a result the France and Russia players used at least 45 minutes to make 1 wartime move, not counting time spent on battles.
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