Recommend
5 
 Thumb up
 Hide
45 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Gaming Related » General Gaming

Subject: In a perfect world, how do YOU want game publishers to handle Promos? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Steve Wood
United States
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Gunship: First Strike! A hit on Kickstarter and soon available as a PreOrder!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hi guys,

My company is running a Kickstarter project next year and like most KS runners, we are planning Promos.

I have seen a lot of threads about this lately but this one is not the same.

What I would like to see in THIS thread is what you think the game publishers SHOULD do about them. We are a company who wants to listen and adjust our habits accordingly. Your feedback helps to create a better experience for everyone involved.

It concerns me when I see gamers saying that they will never buy a game that has promos. But I am also in agreement with a lot of what the gaming world does NOT like about promos.

It's not fair that a gamer will NEVER have access to the free Kickstarter Super Heavy Battle Cannon card because he/she bought the game later and was never aware of the KS version. Also not fair that your Knight has Super Tough Alloyed Battle Armor that my sword cannot damage because YOU could afford to go to Essen and I could not. I understand these things.

But is it also fair that Player A gets NO special cards or advantages when they jumped on the bandwagon and helped get the game published for everyone's benefit? Is it fair to the designer to lose out on sales simply because he wanted to give away a prize as a thank you to his first customers?

My offer is to give our Promos away for FREE to my Kickstarter crowd and then later offer them for SALE on our site. I feel that this gives everyone access to them if they want them, gives the guys who were in from the beginning a temporary advantage, and still allows the person who missed out to get them later. And no one should have to pay premium prices for a few cards.

What do you guys think is the most fair to the most people? YOU are the consumers - tell us what you want to see.

Thanks!

Steve
EPG
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Travis Worthington
United States
California
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
2010 Releases ........................................ The Resistance, Haggis & Triumvirate ..................................... Now accepting submissions for 2011 releases ........................................ www.IndieBoardsandCards.com
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
didn't your mother tell you "life is not fair"?

Some people want things to be exclusive - be that essen, gencon, or kickstarter, some will not want promos at all, others will be happy if they and everyone else can buy them later, some will want promos that affect game play, some are fine with promos only if they don't affect game play.

Most won't care at all.

No way to make everyone happy - just minimize the number that are unhappy.
10 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gunther Schmidl
Austria
Linz
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
Sounds fine to me, that's what the BGG store is mostly for these days.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Wood
United States
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Gunship: First Strike! A hit on Kickstarter and soon available as a PreOrder!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
T Worthington wrote:
No way to make everyone happy - just minimize the number that are unhappy.


Kind of like being married!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boaty McBoatface
England
County of Essex
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I have no probloms with promo's, as long as they can be easily got, but if I have to work at it then I won't bother. Im also dislike restricted promos, you only get this if you buy at X show, If I am supporting your game support me not just those who got to fatsmellygitfest2012.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Lexington
Kentucky
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't want to spend a lot of time searching for promotional items to see if they'd add or detract from the game. In some ways, I prefer games without promotional items.

I'd prefer promos to be a reduced price on the game or some other program to drive business or interaction that doesn't impact game play.

This is probably the minority view.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
My concern with promos has nothing to do with perceived fairness. I don't like the fact that they make it hard to specify what game I want to play. Each mechanically unique promo creates a variant of the underlying game. The number of games now appearing under the same name rises as 2^n where n is the number of promos. I want to say, "Let's play [game]" without having to insert a multitude of caveats. It's worse still to have to ask an opponent to specify what elements are actually included in his game so that I can consider them when formulating my strategy.

Proliferation of different methods of play without any standardization is a problem with traditional card games and other public domain games (excepting a few enduringly popular ones with international governing bodies). I have no idea why publishers, who are free to fix a standard version of whatever games they produce, are instead determined by deliberate effort to import a totally unnecessary and avoidable hassle.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jim McMahon
United States
West Springfield
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
badge
Lookee what he can do! He wants a job!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Provide promos for free to Kickstarter backers. Make it clear, on KS, that they will be made available in the future to people, but for a cost. Also, when you make them available to others for a cost, provide a card that is exactly the same but has different artwork. That way, KSers will still have an exclusive, but functionally the card will be identicle.
24 
 Thumb up
1.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Patar Absurdus the Shananigator
United States
Carrollton
TX
flag msg tools
"what you just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response, were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought.
badge
Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't like promo's too much because they cost more to get for the amount of gaming magic they create.

Your plan sounds good though. Free promo for kickstarters and sold to non-kickstarters. That is not a bad plan as far as promos go.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Wood
United States
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Gunship: First Strike! A hit on Kickstarter and soon available as a PreOrder!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jimmcmahon wrote:
Provide promos for free to Kickstarter backers. Make it clear, on KS, that they will be made available in the future to people, but for a cost. Also, when you make them available to others for a cost, provide a card that is exactly the same but has different artwork. That way, KSers will still have an exclusive, but functionally the card will be identicle.


Nice! I like this way of thinking.

I think I will handle it like this, and perhaps NOT engage in the activity of any exclusive items that leave people out.
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Hugh G. Rection
United States
La Mesa
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Escape Pod Games wrote:
My offer is to give our Promos away for FREE to my Kickstarter crowd and then later offer them for SALE on our site. I feel that this gives everyone access to them if they want them, gives the guys who were in from the beginning a temporary advantage, and still allows the person who missed out to get them later. And no one should have to pay premium prices for a few cards.


In a perfect world, this is how all publishers would handle promos. It would eliminate the missed opportunities and crazy Ebay prices. Give away a promo of value to Kickstarters, direct pre-orders, or purchasers at a con, but at least make them available for a reasonable price or on the BGG Store afterwards.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Linda Baldwin
United States
White Plains
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm not a big fan of promos either, but I like your way of handling it. Neatly solves the exclusivity problem while still providing a benny for your KS crowd.

Of course, people like me who are neutral on promos may not rush to KS, but honestly, I'm not the target audience for that anyway; I tend to only Kickstart a game I've tried, or know quite a bit about.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Wesley Kinslow
United States
Piperton
Tennessee
flag msg tools
↳ Do one brain damage ↳ Do one brain damage ↳ End the run
badge
Real heroes wear pink.
Avatar
mb
Offer a promotional for free when you want to promote the game - offer the same promotional component for purchase later directly through your company. That way people aren't strong armed into buying your product which causes resentment from those that didn't get it in the "promo window" and even makes those that "have" to buy this now a little irked.

Ascension: Deckbuilding Game is doing it right, IMO.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brook Gentlestream
United States
Long Beach
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hugh_G_Rection wrote:
Escape Pod Games wrote:
My offer is to give our Promos away for FREE to my Kickstarter crowd and then later offer them for SALE on our site. I feel that this gives everyone access to them if they want them, gives the guys who were in from the beginning a temporary advantage, and still allows the person who missed out to get them later. And no one should have to pay premium prices for a few cards.


In a perfect world, this is how all publishers would handle promos. It would eliminate the missed opportunities and crazy Ebay prices. Give away a promo of value to Kickstarters, direct pre-orders, or purchasers at a con, but at least make them available for a reasonable price or on the BGG Store afterwards.


If the items are truly exclusive and rare, then I feel like the promo isn't really meant to be used with the game. If the item is valuable and contributes something worthwhile to the game, then it should be either part of the initial game or available as an expansion.

That being said, I feel like kickstarter specials should be exclusive for awhile. The way that Indie Board & Cards handled their kickstarter specials is my ideal scenario... backers got the entire first expansion for free, and it will later be on sale. Except I would prefer a longer wait before the expansion goes on sale than what has been indicated. The longer the period between the time kickstarts receive their promos and the time it goes on sale, the more valuable they are from a kickstarter's perspective.

But it should go on sale eventually if its worth having and contributes something useful. Otherwise, the game and its publisher is being hurt, and what's the point of kickstarting a losing horse? Just be up front with kickstarters about how it will be sold, when it will be sold, and how much its likely to cost, and they'll be able to see the value for themselves.

It should also be noted that promos don't have to be all-powerful superweapons -- those that add versatility and customization to the game are far more valuable.

Oh, and improved components are an excellent kickstarter benefit, especially since they don't leave other people out from the game or overpower anybody. I have no problem with these improved components eventually going on sale.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Wood
United States
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Gunship: First Strike! A hit on Kickstarter and soon available as a PreOrder!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hugh_G_Rection wrote:
Escape Pod Games wrote:
My offer is to give our Promos away for FREE to my Kickstarter crowd and then later offer them for SALE on our site. I feel that this gives everyone access to them if they want them, gives the guys who were in from the beginning a temporary advantage, and still allows the person who missed out to get them later. And no one should have to pay premium prices for a few cards.


In a perfect world, this is how all publishers would handle promos. It would eliminate the missed opportunities and crazy Ebay prices. Give away a promo of value to Kickstarters, direct pre-orders, or purchasers at a con, but at least make them available for a reasonable price or on the BGG Store afterwards.


Doing all we can to create this "perfect world" for you guys!
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Freelance Police
United States
Palo Alto
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Why not alternative art, signed cards, or other "pimp" components? They don't give a player an advantage, don't change how the game plays, but are a nice bonus to the game. Many gamers already pimp their games -- I use a nice FFG Cthulhu LCG figure as my Arkham Horror First Player token. You can also add non-gaming paraphenalia like bumper stickers, bookmarks, or other things. Even WotC released a deck of playing cards that had Magic the Gathering backs -- totally unplayable for the MtG game, yet nonetheless a nice Magic-related promotional item.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Wood
United States
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Gunship: First Strike! A hit on Kickstarter and soon available as a PreOrder!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
lordrahvin wrote:
Hugh_G_Rection wrote:
Escape Pod Games wrote:
My offer is to give our Promos away for FREE to my Kickstarter crowd and then later offer them for SALE on our site. I feel that this gives everyone access to them if they want them, gives the guys who were in from the beginning a temporary advantage, and still allows the person who missed out to get them later. And no one should have to pay premium prices for a few cards.


In a perfect world, this is how all publishers would handle promos. It would eliminate the missed opportunities and crazy Ebay prices. Give away a promo of value to Kickstarters, direct pre-orders, or purchasers at a con, but at least make them available for a reasonable price or on the BGG Store afterwards.


If the items are truly exclusive and rare, then I feel like the promo isn't really meant to be used with the game. If the item is valuable and contributes something worthwhile to the game, then it should be either part of the initial game or available as an expansion.

That being said, I feel like kickstarter specials should be exclusive for awhile. The way that Indie Board & Cards handled their kickstarter specials is my ideal scenario... backers got the entire first expansion for free, and it will later be on sale. Except I would prefer a longer wait before the expansion goes on sale than what has been indicated. The longer the period between the time kickstarts receive their promos and the time it goes on sale, the more valuable they are from a kickstarter's perspective.

It should also be noted that promos don't have to be all-powerful superweapons -- those that add versatility and customization to the game are far more valuable.

Oh, and improved components are an excellent kickstarter benefit, especially since they don't leave other people out from the game or overpower anybody. I have no problem with these improved components eventually going on sale.


All excellent points and noted!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Wood
United States
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Gunship: First Strike! A hit on Kickstarter and soon available as a PreOrder!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Sam and Max wrote:
Why not alternative art, signed cards, or other "pimp" components? They don't give a player an advantage, don't change how the game plays, but are a nice bonus to the game. Many gamers already pimp their games -- I use a nice FFG Cthulhu LCG figure as my Arkham Horror First Player token. You can also add non-gaming paraphenalia like bumper stickers, bookmarks, or other things. Even WotC released a deck of playing cards that had Magic the Gathering backs -- totally unplayable for the MtG game, yet nonetheless a nice Magic-related promotional item.


Also very good ideas and noted!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Ferejohn
United States
Mountain View
California
flag msg tools
badge
Pitying fools as hard as I can...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Escape Pod Games wrote:
jimmcmahon wrote:
Provide promos for free to Kickstarter backers. Make it clear, on KS, that they will be made available in the future to people, but for a cost. Also, when you make them available to others for a cost, provide a card that is exactly the same but has different artwork. That way, KSers will still have an exclusive, but functionally the card will be identicle.


Nice! I like this way of thinking.

I think I will handle it like this, and perhaps NOT engage in the activity of any exclusive items that leave people out.


This is definitely my preferred handling of this. People who KS get the new thing earlier and always have an indication that theirs is different, but you don't make people who didn't KS say "well I'm not going to get it now because I won't have the "complete game"" or create an obnoxious secondary market.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bernd Caspers
Germany
Mönchengladbach
Unspecified
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
In a perfect world...that´s easy, mail them to my home, free of charge.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
One Armed Bandit
Canada
Surrey
British Columbia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The most offensive promos are items that are game-affecting.

This means promo cards, exclusive expansions or the like. Those are actually "part of the game" and are what peeve the completionists the most. It leads to the claims that the game isn't "complete" and the like.

Making the promo available later via website and/or BGG store helps alleviate this a LOT.

The middle ground is the "planned expansion". Including a full expansion NOW instead of 6-12 months later. This one can be pricy though, depending on the scale of your expansion. Note for this to be appropriate, it has to be an expansion you were putting into general release anyways, rather than specifically a "promo item".

The least offensive promos are ones that are NOT game-affecting at all. This includes non-game collectibles (buttons, badges, bumper stickers, bags...), pimped components and the increasing popular "alternative art" option, where you do make promo cards... but they just replace existing cards EXACTLY, merely with new art. That says shiny and exclusive, but it's not going to make completionists butthurt, because the standard edition of the game IS complete.

D-Day Dice, as an example, did all three categories.
They have exclusive promo cards, including the "K-Pack" which is expressly designed to show off that they're Kickstarter exclusive (hence K).

Some levels include full retail expansions that they were going to sell in stores later anyways. This lets people get a jumpstart on things, but nobody's locked out.

And then they have a lot of bling, like the messenger bag, premium dice and the tin box.

I am not a completionist and don't get my panties in a wad over unobtainable exclusives, but they are annoying.

Honestly, the best approach to make everyone happy is the bling route. It's cool stuff you can show off, but doesn't actually change the game.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Duff
Canada
Ottawa
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Escape Pod Games wrote:
My offer is to give our Promos away for FREE to my Kickstarter crowd and then later offer them for SALE on our site.


Sounds like the perfect solution to me.

Make sure you use this wording, it will help prevent misunderstandings by your backers. IE, call them free promos, don't use the word kickstarter anywhere.

I wouldn't bother with the changing art or name thing that D-Day Dice is doing. Calling a card Alpha when you ship it with kickstarter, then Beta when you sell it or put it in an expansion doesn't fool anyone. It's still the same card, and it's not an exclusive.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
TOSHIRO MIFUNE
Japan
Iwakuni
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Redward wrote:
I don't like promo's too much because they cost more to get for the amount of gaming magic they create.

Your plan sounds good though. Free promo for kickstarters and sold to non-kickstarters. That is not a bad plan as far as promos go.


I can easily live with this and lets move on to the next thing.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Samo Oleami
Slovenia
Ljubljana
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
palmerkun wrote:
The least offensive promos are ones that are NOT game-affecting at all. This includes non-game collectibles (buttons, badges, bumper stickers, bags...), pimped components and the increasing popular "alternative art" option, where you do make promo cards... but they just replace existing cards EXACTLY, merely with new art. That says shiny and exclusive, but it's not going to make completionists butthurt, because the standard edition of the game IS complete.

That's what I'd suggest as well. Include something that makes the game look better or different without changing the game.

Custom made bag for chits/cubes, alternative art, sculpted pieces. (and this stuff you can also offer later for sale)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gláucio Reis
Brazil
Rio de Janeiro
RJ
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jimmcmahon wrote:
Also, when you make them available to others for a cost, provide a card that is exactly the same but has different artwork. That way, KSers will still have an exclusive, but functionally the card will be identicle.

What if the KS backer prefers the new art?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.