Recommend
80 
 Thumb up
 Hide
301 Posts
1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5  Next »  [13] | 

Mansions of Madness: First Edition» Forums » Variants

Subject: Mansions of Madness - Fully Revised rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: HoursOfEntertainment [+] [View All]
Chris J Davis
United Kingdom
London
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Overtext pending moderation...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm starting work on a project to fully revise every scenario for Mansions of Madness to hopefully make the bad ones good and the good ones maybe a bit better. I'd appreciate any feedback people are willing to provide on my ideas or what they feel doesn't work or could be better in the scenarios. And I have, of course, read this:

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/728690/scenario-by-scenario-...

A couple of other notes: I do not want comments like "I think these things are fine as they are, why bother changing them?". If you are not interested in variants then simply post nothing and move along - this is not the thread for you. Also, I will to a greater or lesser degree be including my own take on some of the cards, so there may be some changes listed even where they may not be 'needed'. I am, after all, going to be the one spending hours creating these cards in Photoshop, so I think I have the right to change things a little to my liking.

I'll post my ideas for changes here as I write them, with changes to keeper action cards listed only under the first scenario in which they appear. I'll start creating the cards as soon as I have all the relevant images.

So.. to begin:

General Rule Changes

The keeper now has three types of action available to him:

Normal Actions are the same as in the base rules: they may be performed as many times per turn as the keeper wishes, providing he has sufficient threat.

Diminishing Actions may also be performed as many times per turn as the keeper wishes, but cost 1 extra threat each time the keeper performs that action beyond the first in a single turn (so +1 the second time it is performed, +2 the third time it is performed, etc).

Restricted Actions may only be performed by the keeper once per turn per target.

When any investigator is killed before the objective is revealed, the keeper gains 5 threat.

To provide the keeper with a small incentive to kill investigators before the objective is revealed.

All room status effect tokens (such as fire and darkness) are considered to be limited in supply. If a player wishes to place one and there are none left in the supply, he may instead take one from elsewhere on the board.

Now required for some scenarios.

Fire tokens nullify (but do not discard) the effects of darkness tokens.

Apart from the fact that it makes thematic sense, it is also required for Scenario 4.

Before the beginning of any scenario, the players may read all of the Event cards.

Some scenarios have events that it is wise to know about in advance, especially for the keeper.

Rather than affecting attribute tests, stun tokens now simply reduce all of an investigator's attributes by 2.

So that stun tokens also affect ability to complete puzzles.

Suggested rule: The story choices the keeper makes at the beginning of the game should be chosen randomly. If all players agree, the keeper may still decide which choice to make for story choice 1.

Some story choices are just plain better than others (in both the original scenarios and these revised scenarios), so this is just to prevent the keeper from choosing the same options every time.

The attribute cards that players choose for their investigators should be selected randomly.

For similar reasons to the above random keeper selections.

Whenever the investigators reveal a Clue card, all investigators receive 1 skill point.

Not only does this make thematic sense, but it also allows for investigator skill points to scale with the length of the scenario, as well as compensate for any increased difficulty imposed on the investigators by these revised rules.

Investigators may not use other investigators' starting items.

Because Michael McGlen getting teary-eyed over Isabel's letter is just dumb. Also reinforces the distinctiveness of each character, which is a design objective.

Investigators may not look at the base of a monster until it is killed or otherwise removed from play.

This is just a houserule I've been using since my first game and thought I'd just throw it in. I've never understood why the real rule is any different.

1: The Fall of House Lynch

Change Keeper choice 3 to:
3. The investigators who previously investigated Walter’s disappearance were:
A. Burnt alive
B. Skinned alive

This is a thematic/flavour change only, in line with some of the changes below.

Additional setup instructions:
Keep the “Pyromania” and “Raise Dead” keeper action cards nearby.

Change Event 1 to:
3A: A fiery figure bolts down the hallway towards the bedroom.
Place a zombie in Hallway 2 with a fire token on him. The keeper gains the “Pyromania” action card.
3B: The skinless remains of a man throws open the door of the laboratory.
Place a zombie in the foyer. Each investigator takes 1 horror and the keeper receives the “Raise Dead” action card.

One thing I'd like to implement is to make every story choice the keeper makes at the start of the game actually matter, beyond just where the clues appear. This change is to implement that idea.

Change Event 2 to:
2A: A madman picks up his axe and runs down the hall.
If there are no maniacs on the board, the keeper may place one in the Foyer. He may then move any maniac up to 2 spaces.
2B: The lights momentarily go out as an explosion of gunfire echos down the hall.
Make an attack against each investigator in a bedroom or hallway space as if they were a humanoid monster. You are considered to be using a ranged weapon with a damage value of 2, and pass all attribute tests on a roll of 5 or lower.

Just to make Event 2 a little more interesting and useful.

Change Event 4 to:
1A: The ground shakes violently.
Reveal Objective. If Clue 1A has been found, place 1 time token on the next Event card.
1B: The old house groans.
Reveal Objective. Discard all lock cards.
1C: The front door locks with a loud click.
In order to escape, investigators must solve Lock Puzzle #6B.

Now, the objective is only auto-revealed for 1A and 1B. This is to prevent a problem I have seen occur in too many of my games where the objective is to escape: that the investigators just happen to be right next to the exit when Event 4 reveals the objective and they just say "oh" and step out for the win, even if they had been performing really badly up until that point.

Change Objective 1A to:
When this objective is revealed, discard all Lock cards, maniacs and the “Maniac Attack” card from play.

To prevent there being two maniacs on the board (a common complaint on theme if the maniac is supposed to be Walter).

Change Take Sample to:
(2)
Restricted Action: Choose a humanoid monster (or a mi-go) who is not carrying a sample in an investigator’s space to attack that investigator. If the monster causes damage, place a sample token on the monster and move it 1 space towards any altar.
If a monster carrying a sample is in an altar’s space at the start of your turn, place the token on the altar and gain threat equal to the number of investigators. You gain 1 extra threat per turn for each sample you have on an altar.

A complaint I hear every single time I first use Take Sample on a new group is "so... monsters can rip your teeth out without even a fight?". This corrects that, as well as making the card useful for all objectives (rather than just 1B).

Change Pyromaniac to:
Pyromania
(1)
Diminishing Action: Choose one:
- Place a fire token in a room containing a campfire or flaming zombie.
- Place a fire token in a room adjacent to a room that is already on fire. Then test the number of rooms on fire:
Fail: The investigators may remove one other fire token from the board.

Just to make Pyromaniac a little more tactical in its use, and prevent it from being too over-powered for the first scenario.

Change Raise Dead to:
(1)
Whenever an investigator, zombie, cultist or cult leader is killed, place a corpse marker in its space.
Diminishing Action: Perform 1 of the following:
- Place 1 corpse marker in the Gaveyard or Crypt.
- Replace a corpse marker that has been in play since the beginning of this game round with a zombie.

To limit Raise Dead only to monsters that cannot reappear once killed (like maniacs and witches).

Change Command Minion to:
Restricted Action: Move a monster up to 2 spaces.
Any investigators in the monster’s space may first test Strength or Dexterity (-1 if Beast, -3 if Eldritch):
Pass: Take 1 horror. The monster moves 1 fewer space.
Fail: Take 1 horror.

To give investigators a default option to delay monsters, at the expense of losing some sanity.

Change Uncontrollable Urges to:
(1)
Diminishing Action: Choose an investigator to test his remaining Sanity:
Fail: You may move him to an adjacent space or force him to resolve an action from 1 of his spell, artifact, equipment or tome cards (you make all relevant choices).

To make Uncontrollable Urges the main focus of sanity loss for this scenario (another design objective: to make sanity "important" in a scenario for more than just trauma cards).

2: The Inner Sanctum

Setup Instructions
Do not place a ladder marker in the Chapel.

To prevent the incessant "where does the ladder lead?" questions.

Place vent markers in the following locations:
Basement Storage
Library (same space as the barrier)

To make it more desirable to summon Hounds of Tindalos.

Change Event 2 to:
The keeper gains threat equal to half the current total damage on the investigators (rounded down).

The original effect was boring and basically just refunded the keeper for doing nothing. This is a bit more interesting and implies that the cultists need the investigators' blood to perform their ceremony.

Change Event 4 to:
1A: Choose an investigator to take 1 horror for each cultist in his room or an adjacent room.
1B: The keeper may move each cultist 1 space.
1C: The keeper places a cult leader in the Chapel. Investigators may not escape from a space containing this monster.

1A made a bit more interesting and also amended to remove the objective auto-reveal to prevent the step-out-the-door-oops-I-won strategy. 1C amended to make the cult leader actually useful.

Change Event 5 to:
If the objective is 1B and there is no cthonian in play, the investigators win.
If the objective is 1B and there is a cthonian in play, the investigator chooses one cultist in the Chapel to be killed and one investigator to be attacked by the cthonian. The game then continues.
If the objective is 1C and there is a zombie, a Hound of Tindalos and a shoggoth each in the same room as an investigator, the keeper wins.
Otherwise, all players lose.

Changed to make the ending make more sense and remove the double-win paradox.

Change Objective 1B to:
If 4 cultists are in the Chapel at the start of your turn, reveal this objective and place a Cthonian in the Chapel. The cthonian may not move but may attack figures in adjacent spaces. From next turn, at the start of each of your turns, place a horror token on this card. The cthonian gains health equal to the number of investigators for each token on this card.
---
The Keeper wins when there are 5 tokens on this card.
---
The investigators win if the cthonian is killed or if the cthonian is not in play when the last Event card is revealed.

To prevent the cthonian from running away from the investigators (thematically abhorrent).

Change Objective 1C to:
The keeper wins if there is a zombie, a Hound of Tindalos and a shoggoth each in the same room as an investigator and either:
- A monster is in the same room as the dropped Clue 1 card, or
- The last Event card is revealed.

So the keeper has to have one of each type, rather than just whatever is the cheapest.

Change Summoning to:
Action: Kill any number of cultists that have not moved this turn in a single room and pay an equal amount of threat to place the corresponding monster in the same room:
1: Zombie
2: Hound of Tindalos or Crawling One
3: Shoggoth
The summoned monster may not move this turn.

To re-balance the costs of each monster more appropriately, and to help incorporate monsters from the expansion into earlier scenarios.

Change Summon Worshippers to:
Restricted Action: Choose a space containing an altar. Place a cultist in that space.

To prevent swarms of cultists appearing instantly (they enter in single file as you see the monks in Monty Python).

Change Clue 2A and 2B to:
Place a ladder marker in your room and in the Chapel.

The invisible ladder again.

Change Clue 1A to:
Reveal Objective. Place a cult leader in this room. The cult leader can move 1 extra space when it moves.

To allow the cult leader to keep up with the investigators now that all they want to do is escape.

3: Blood Ties

Add to scenario special rules:
If the Blood Relative is killed, the keeper gains an additional 5 threat.

In line with the new standard rule for killing investigators.

Whenever a zombie ends its turn in a room on fire, it becomes a flaming zombie; place a fire token on the zombie to denote this. A flaming zombie gains -1 to its horror rating and +1 to its damage rating.

In accordance with the change to objective 1B, as well as to give flaming zombies a use in other objectives.

Change Event 1 to:
The blood relative must choose 1 of the following:
- Choose an investigator to take 1 horror and receive any spell card.
- Place a mi-go in his space.

To make sure the spell is useful regardless of who was randomly chosen as the blood relative.

Change Event 3 to:
If the blood relative chose an investigator to receive a spell card for Event 1, he must now choose 1 of the following for the keeper to perform:
- Place 1 sample token on the altar.
- Place a fire marker in any 2 rooms that are adjacent to a room already on fire.
- Deal a total of 4 horror and/or wounds to the blood relative, divided however the keeper wishes.

To make this event more about the investigators trying to deduce what the keeper's objective is before it is actually revealed.

Change Event 4 to:
The blood relative may choose to test the number of clues found so far. Before rolling the die, if every investigator discards a skill token, the blood relative may add his Luck to the result of the die roll:
Pass: The keeper may immediately perform any one keeper Action without spending threat.
Fail: The blood relative may kill any one zombie on the board.

Changed this event to more of a balancing mechanism. Note that Events 3 and 4 have been swapped.

Change Objective 1B to:
The keeper wins if the following rooms are on fire: Guest Bedroom, Storage Closet, Entryway, Front Porch, Mud Room, Storage Shed, Root Cellar, Furnace Room.

Because objective 1B in the original game was ridiculous. Additionally, this objective is more in line with the theme for the corresponding story - that the house is built on an ancient cult burial site, and the zombies are not happy about it.

4: Classroom Curses

Change setup instructions:
Replace Creature of the Night with Command Minion.

Replace two of the Nothing of Interest cards with the Torch and the Ceremonial Skull. If you own Forbidden Alchemy, replace a further Nothing of Interest with True Magick.

Replace all references to the Ceremonial Skull and the Lantern in the seed cards with Dhol Chants and Nameless Cults, respectively.

Scenario Special Rules
In this scenario, if an investigator is in a room with a lock card, they must first reveal and resolve the lock card when attempting to leave. They may not leave the room until the lock is discarded.

See Clue 3, below.

The Torch is not discarded when it is used to place a fire token.

In accordance with the new Objective 1A.

Change Event 1 to:
The keeper places two witches and a darkness token in Hallway 3.

To provide a method for the keeper to start collecting sample tokens immediately.

Change Event 2 to:
4B: For the rest of the game, investigators who end their turn in the Freezer gain a stun token and investigators in the Freezer during the Investigator Trading Step do not discard stun tokens.

To make the Freezer effect more distinctive compared to the Furnace Room effect.

Change Event 3 to:
For each sample token on an altar, the keeper may perform one of the following:
- Add or remove a darkness token on the board.
- Remove a fire token from the board.
- Gain 1 threat.

To give the altars and Take Sample card an actual use in this scenario.

Change Event 4 to:
1A, 1C: The keeper places 1 mi-go on the board for each altar that has at least 1 sample token on it. He may place these mi-go in the Attic Storage and/or the Operating Room (1 per room).
1B: Reveal Objective. The keeper places a Hound of Tindalos with +4 health per investigator in the Attic Storage and discards all Lock cards. If Clue 1 has not been found, he may move the Hound up to 2 spaces.

Now only Event 4 reveals the objective if the objective is 1B. Otherwise, the keeper gets a couple of mi-go.

Change Objective 1A to:
The keeper discards the Uncontrollable Urges action card. When an investigator sets fire to the Tower Room, Study, Laboratory or Gallery, he may also remove 1 time token from the Event deck.
---
The keeper wins if the last Event card is revealed.
---
Investigators may escape through the Gallery. The investigators win if either:
- Investigators carrying a total of 4 spell cards escape, or
- At least 1 investigator escapes while the following rooms are on fire: Tower Room, Study, Laboratory, Gallery.
Razing the school building to the ground, you bolt out the front door. In the following weeks, officials tear the stone tower down to its foundations.

An attempt to make this scenario a little more interesting and distinct compared to the others.

Add to Objective 1B:
The keeper removes all Hounds of Tindalos from the board and discards the Darkness action card.

So that Hounds of Tindalos can't teleport to the exit.

Change Objective 1C to:
When this objective is revealed place Helena (a named witch) in the Library and discard all vents and Lock cards. Helena has +4 health per investigator.
---
The keeper wins if a mi-go kills an investigator.
---
The investigators win if Helena Detaigne (the named witch) is killed and either:
- No mi-go are on the board, or
- An investigator carrying the Ceremonial Skull is in the same room as a mi-go.

To again make the end game a little more interesting and to give a use to the Ceremonial Skull.

Change Darkness to:
(2)
Action: Place a darkness token in any room. Then, if there are no Hounds of Tindalos on the board, you may pay 3 threat to place one in the same room.
Your Hounds of Tindalos may not enter rooms that are not in darkness. Once per turn, your Hounds of Tindalos may move between any two rooms in darkness as if their doors were connected.

For the obvious reason that Darkness is incredibly, incredibly boring and annoying. Plus, gives the keeper a way to bring at least one monster on to the board if all others are dead.

Change Clues 3A and 3B to:
The keeper places the "Padlocked Door" Lock card in this room.

To prevent an investigator two rooms away from helping the trapped investigators to escape.

Change Clue 1A to:
Reveal Objective.

Change Clue 1B to:
Reveal Objective.

Change Clue 1C to:
Reveal Objective.


5: Green-Eyed Boy

Add to Scenario Special Rules:
Whenever an investigator explores a room, the keeper takes the exploration cards, looks at them, then passes them to the investigator face down. Investigators must keep any cards in their possession face down (though may look at those cards themselves at any time) and may not tell other players what face down cards they hold. A card is only turned face up when it is used for the first time (cards that provide a continuous bonus are revealed the first time the bonus becomes relevant, such as when an attribute test is performed). Investigators may still exchange cards as normal, with the card retaining its orientation for the exchange. Clue cards are never revealed nor may they be read out (though they may still be exchanged) - the finder of the clue may only state where he believes the next clue to be located.

Additional Setup Instructions:
Exchange Command Minion for Creature of the Night. The keeper also takes the Raise Dead action card.

To give the keeper something to play with other than pop-up witches.

Hallway 2 should be rotated 180-degrees.

This is just to correct another clear error in the map.

Place a sealed door marker on the door to the Freezer.

To prevent the investigators accidentally stumbling into it before Event 1 is revealed.

Replace one of the Nothing of Interest cards with the Torch.

To give investigators a method of disposing of corpses.

Change Nursery seed cards to:
2A: Whateley's Diary, Clue 1, Magical Lock.
2B: Colt .38, Padlocked Door

Change the Freezer seed cards to:
All: Opening the Gate

I decided in the end that it was pointless having the Freezer have different effects before the objective is revealed, so it now just has Opening the Gate for all objectives (and is later replaced by the Ceremonial Skull for one of the objectives.

Change Event cards such that:
Each time token number is one higher

To actually make it possible for the investigators to find Clue 1 in sufficient time.

Add to Event 1:
Remove the sealed door marker from the Freezer door. Place a corpse marker in the same space as the investigator closest to the Freezer (keeper's choice if tied).

Change Event 2 to:
5A: The keeper places 1 maniac in any investigator's room. When this maniac is killed, place a corpse marker in its space.
5B: (same text)

Both to provide corpses for Raise Dead. Also note that Event 2 now keys off of Clue 5 rather than Clue 6. This is because Event 2(5A) provides a Maniac (which can be resurrected) and Clue 5B now provides a chthonian (which can't be resurrected).

Add to Event 3:
The keeper may no longer play face down '?' Mythos cards on the investigators.

So that the keeper has to decide who his traitor is early on (if he has one at all), rather than just switching sides immediately before the win.

Change Event 4 to:
The keeper may perform one of the following:
- Discard the Witchcraft card, then place a witch with +4 health per investigator in any room.
- Draw 3 Trauma cards.
- Reveal the objective.

For the rest of the game, investigators carrying a Ceremonial Skull may not perform the Run action.

No longer auto-reveals the objective (again, because two out of the three objectives require the investigators to escape). Prevents a traitor with the Ceremonial Skull from being uncatchable and simply sprinting for the win.

Change Objective 1B to:
The keeper wins if the dropped Ceremonial Skull is in the Freezer.
---
The investigators win if an investigator escapes from the Foyer with the Ceremonial Skull.

So the investigators don't lose just for accidentally wandering into the Freezer. Also makes the win condition a little easier for the keeper and gives a use to the traitor, as the traitor can now carry the skull into the Freezer to fulfil the objective.

Change Witchcraft to:
(1)
Your witches may attack investigators in adjacent spaces.
Diminishing Action: If there are no witches on the board, choose a lone investigator to test his remaining Sanity:
Fail: Pay 1 threat to place a witch in that investigator's space.
If no investigators are within the witch's line-of-sight at the end of any of your turns, remove the witch from the board.

So that witches don't automatically disappear at the start of every keeper turn.

Add to Clue 6A and 6B:
Place a corpse marker in this space.

For Raise Dead.

Add to Clue 5B:
Place a chthonian in this space.

Our favourite under-utilised monster makes a comeback.

Change Clue 1A to:
Reveal objective. Replace the Lock card in the Freezer with the Ceremonial Skull.

If the objective is 1A, the investigators can find the skull in the Freezer.

Change Clue 1B to:
Reveal Objective. Place the Ceremonial Skull under the exploration cards in the:
2A: Tower Room
2B: Nursery

If the objective is 1B, the investigators can find the skull in whichever 'finale' room was not used for Clue 1 (so that it is not the clue-hunter who automatically receives the skull).
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nick R
United Kingdom
Havant
Hampshire
flag msg tools
So long and thanks for all the fish
badge
42 - Life the Universe and Everything
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Sounds like a great project and I look forward to the results, just a couple of comments.

Change Objective 1A to:
Is not the problem of multiple maniacs resolved by the wording on the card, in that if there is a manic on the board already then the card heals rather than creates and additional maniac ?

Change Take Sample to:
Does not the granting of an extra 2 threats per sample give too many threats to the keeper ?

The rest of the changes you propose look good and I look Forward to the PDF's.

Regards

Gnome
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris J Davis
United Kingdom
London
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Overtext pending moderation...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Gnome01 wrote:
Sounds like a great project and I look forward to the results, just a couple of comments.

Change Objective 1A to:
Is not the problem of multiple maniacs resolved by the wording on the card, in that if there is a manic on the board already then the card heals rather than creates and additional maniac ?


You're thinking of the Maniac Attack action card, not the objective.

Quote:
Change Take Sample to:
Does not the granting of an extra 2 threats per sample give too many threats to the keeper ?


One of the problems with Take Sample (as detailed in Rob's breakdown that I linked to at the beginning) is that it doesn't compensate the keeper enough to use it if his objective isn't 1B. Five threat doesn't ofset the threat expenditure it requires to get the sample to the altar. 2 extra threat per turn was what I originally envisioned as being an appropriate reward.

However, I must admit that I came up with that value before coming up with the idea of allowing Take Sample to grant monsters an extra attack. Maybe allowing the attack is now enough to make Take Sample more useful, meaning that the reward should only be 1 extra threat per turn...?

Quote:
The rest of the changes you propose look good and I look Forward to the PDF's.


Thanks.

EDIT: Actually, no - I think it *has to* be 2 extra threat per turn, otherwise not only is it still not enough to offset the threat required to get the sample to the altar, but also it continues to undermine Take Sample's primary function, which is not to cause attacks or move monsters.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris J Davis
United Kingdom
London
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Overtext pending moderation...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Update: Changed the definition of "Restricted Action" and amended the appropriate action cards.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James
Canada
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thumbs up all the way for those who have creative imaginations and enjoy passing it on to others. Thumbs down to nay sayers.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Ferejohn
United States
Mountain View
California
flag msg tools
badge
Pitying fools as hard as I can...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm curious how Take Sample will work in practice. It seems like in scenario 1B (where the keeper is "double rewarded" for getting samples to the altar) he will be positively swimming in threat. Also it seems like it has more relative impact in a 2 player game.

1.5 seems like it might be the right number, but that's obviously difficult (maybe 1 threat/turn for the first, jumping to 3 for the second?).

EDIT: Oh, and yes, you are full of awesomes.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris J Davis
United Kingdom
London
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Overtext pending moderation...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Wow guys, thanks! modest

cferejohn wrote:
1.5 seems like it might be the right number, but that's obviously difficult.


Yes, I agree. I just have to think of a 'clean' way to implement that.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris J Davis
United Kingdom
London
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Overtext pending moderation...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Two options:

1) While there is at least 1 sample on an altar, you gain 1 extra threat per turn, plus 1 additional threat for each sample on an altar. Problem: a lot of text.

2) Gain X threat immediately. You gain 1 extra threat each turn for each sample on an altar. Problem: determining X.

I prefer option 2. Maybe X could just be the number of investigators...?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris J Davis
United Kingdom
London
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Overtext pending moderation...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Updated with The Inner Sanctum.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Roberta Yang
msg tools
Looks very nice overall. A couple of questions/comments:

bleached_lizard wrote:
Change Event 1 to:
3A: A fiery figure bolts down the hallway towards the bedroom.
Place a zombie in Hallway 2 with a fire token on him. The keeper gains the “Pyromania” action card.
3B: The skinless remains of a man throws open the door of the laboratory.
Place a zombie in the foyer. Each investigator takes 1 horror and the keeper receives the “Raise Dead” action card.

I love the theme here, I love that this makes the scenario more varied, and my original misgivings about killing Maniacs becoming unimportant were alleviated with your changes to Raise Dead. I do, however, have one question, which really applies to this whole revision but is most prominent here: a lot of these changes seem to be pro-Keeper, this one most especially. Does this not run the risk of making things too hard for the Investigators?

bleached_lizard wrote:
Now, the objective is only auto-revealed for 1A and 1B. This is to prevent a problem I have seen occur in too many of my games where the objective is to escape: that the investigators just happen to be right next to the exit when Event 4 reveals the objective and they just say "oh" and step out for the win, even if they had been performing really badly up until that point.

Love it.

bleached_lizard wrote:
Change Raise Dead to:
Whenever an investigator, zombie, cultist or cult leader is killed, place a corpse marker in its space.
Diminishing Action: Perform 1 of the following:
- Place 1 corpse marker in the Gaveyard or Crypt.
- Replace a corpse marker that has been in play since the beginning of this game round with a zombie.

To limit Raise Dead only to monsters that cannot reappear once killed (like maniacs and witches).

You don't seem to have specified a cost for using Raise Dead. This is especially relevant as the original card had different costs for the two effects, which seems to interact with the new Diminishing Action rule in an interesting way.

bleached_lizard wrote:
Change Uncontrollable Urges to:
(1)
Diminishing Action: Choose an investigator to test his remaining Sanity:
Fail: You may move him to an adjacent space or force him to resolve an action from 1 of his spell, artifact, equipment or tome cards (you make all relevant choices).

To make Uncontrollable Urges the main focus of sanity loss for this scenario (another design objective: to make sanity "important" in a scenario for more than just trauma cards).

Beautiful. The only thing is that I don't really like the way that, as-written, using this one one Investigator makes it more expensive to use this on another Investigator in the same turn. Uncontrollable Urges is by design a situational Keeper Action that will only be used occasionally when circumstances happen to make it useful; while stopping the Keeper from playing it on the same Investigator repeatedly easily makes sense, I don't like that the Keeper is punished just because the two Investigators who entered positions in which this is useful happened to do so in the same turn, since those two uses will generally be unrelated; it would be nice if the cost only increased for using this on the targeted Investigator, not globally.

bleached_lizard wrote:
Change Event 2 to:
The keeper gains threat equal to half the total damage the investigators have taken (rounded down).

The original effect was boring and basically just refunded the keeper for doing nothing. This is a bit more interesting and implies that the cultists need the investigators' blood to perform their ceremony.

Looks nice, but the wording is ambiguous here. Is damage that Investigators took but subsequently healed counted? Is damage that Investigators who died and were replaced took counted? What about spillover damage past that which was needed to kill them (i.e. if a Shoggoth deals 4 damage to an Investigator with only 1 health left, is that counted as 4 damage or 1)? What if one of those Investigators died due to The Only Way Out or a similar automatic kill effect; are they considered to have taken damage equal to their remaining health before dying? And how are players supposed to remember all of this?

It seems best to make it clear that what this is really counting is the difference between each Investigator's maximum and current health; it's the phrase "have taken" that implies that damage taken in the past but that is no longer visible might still be counted.

bleached_lizard wrote:
Change Objective 1C to:
The keeper may reveal this objective if a zombie, a Hound of Tindalos and a Shoggoth are in each of the following rooms: Chapel, Study, Corner Hallway 2.

So the keeper has to have one of each type, rather than just whatever is the cheapest.

We've found that the Keeper's win condition in Objective 1C is extremely easy to fulfill, and this doesn't look like it will change that.

bleached_lizard wrote:
Change Summoning to:
Action: Kill any number of cultists in one room and pay an equal amount of threat to place the corresponding monster in the same room:
1: Zombie
2: Hound of Tindalos
3: Shoggoth

To re-balance the costs of each monster more appropriately.

Wonderful. The only thing that concerns me is that the 1-cost Zombie can effectively be used to easily fully heal an injured Cultist and move it twice in one turn. Something that allows damage from the sacrificed Cultists to carry over to the Summoned monster might be a nice way around that. Alternatively, you might just decide that that isn't really an issue, but one Threat to fully heal a Cultist and give it a couple of extra buffs (albeit with nerfed Awareness) seems a tad silly to me.

bleached_lizard wrote:
Change Summon Worshippers to:
Restricted Action: Choose a space containing an altar. Place a cultist in that space.

I'd have gone for Diminishing rather than Restricted here, but this looks fine as well.


Overall, though, bar a few minor quibbles, this looks like a nice improvement over the official version of the scenarios (and these are two of the scenarios I liked best in their original form, so that's quite something).
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nicola Zee
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
bleached_lizard wrote:

Change Uncontrollable Urges to:
(1)
Diminishing Action: Choose an investigator to test his remaining Sanity:
Fail: You may move him to an adjacent space or force him to resolve an action from 1 of his spell, artifact, equipment or tome cards (you make all relevant choices).

To make Uncontrollable Urges the main focus of sanity loss for this scenario (another design objective: to make sanity "important" in a scenario for more than just trauma cards).


As you already know I'm always a fan of what you post.

Just a mention, I already use a variant of applying san test to UU. I went a bit further and split the card into two cards. That way, I applied the san test only to the forced use of equipment.

[b]UU Card 1 - Uncontrollable Fear[\b]
Action: Once per investigator per turn, choose an investigator. You move him to an adjacent space (but not into a Locked room). The investigator does not need to do Evade tests but may need to do Horror tests.

[b]UU Card 2 - Uncontrollable Urges[\b]
Action: Once per turn, choose an investigator to test their remaining Sanity. Fail: you pay the Threat and force him to resolve an action from 1 of his Spell, Equipment, Artefact, or Tome cards. You may not force him to attack an investigator.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nicola Zee
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
bleached_lizard wrote:
Wow guys, thanks! modest

cferejohn wrote:
1.5 seems like it might be the right number, but that's obviously difficult.


Yes, I agree. I just have to think of a 'clean' way to implement that.


Personally, I'm not that bothered with the issues with 'Take Sample' - but if you want a simple way of applying 0.5 threat cost, just force the Keeper to dsicard a Mythos or Trauma card. Evil Presence costs 1 threat for 2 cards. 1 card, therefore, costs 0.5 threat.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Henning
Sweden
flag msg tools
Avatar
Great initiative, and great job!

I like this a lot. If the scenarios become balanced and interesting this, for me, will mean that this game actually gets playtime. As it is now I haven't touched the box in a long time.

Now over to some practical issues. I don't have any problem at all with printing new Keeper Actions, Objectives and Event cards (this is a limited set of cards), but perhaps modifying the exploration cards (i.e clue cards etc.) should be avoided at an extent.

The reason for this is that I don't want to be able to distinguish what exploration card are modified (most likely clues) just by a glance, and I don't want to print a completely new set of exploration cards (and possibly lock and obstacle cards as well). My wish is that I can use as much of the original components as possible.

Now the good thing, if you decide to give in to my wish, is that you have only created 3 new exploration cards for the first two stories (namely clue 2a, 2b and clue 1a for the Inner Sanctum). Hopefully this can be avoided by utilising other means.

The solution to clue 1a is obviously to include this information in the objective card instead - as you have written it, or by giving access to another keeper action card ("Creatures of the Night" for instance).

The problem with the ladder can maybe be mentioned in set-up instructions/general rules for this scenario (for instance, "When a ladder is placed on the board, place another ladder in the chapel in the indicated spot/upper right corner.")

Again, great initiative! Keep it up!

/Henning
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Henning
Sweden
flag msg tools
Avatar
bleached_lizard wrote:
Setup Instructions
Place vent markers in the following locations:
Secret Passage (on the rug)
Furnace room (on the space with the furnace)
Bathroom 1

To make it more desirable to summon Hounds of Tindalos.


This will create an interesting tactical choice of what to summon - I like it.

Though it's an easy thing to do, you will need to provide a third vent marker as the game only come with two =)

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Henning
Sweden
flag msg tools
Avatar
bleached_lizard wrote:

Change Summon Worshippers to:
Restricted Action: Choose a space containing an altar. Place a cultist in that space.

To prevent swarms of cultists appearing instantly (they enter in single file as you see the monks in Monty Python).


Thanks, now I can never again summon a cultist without thinking of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7wc55oXWf8

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris J Davis
United Kingdom
London
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Overtext pending moderation...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hinnyboy wrote:
bleached_lizard wrote:

Change Summon Worshippers to:
Restricted Action: Choose a space containing an altar. Place a cultist in that space.

To prevent swarms of cultists appearing instantly (they enter in single file as you see the monks in Monty Python).


Thanks, now I can never again summon a cultist without thinking of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7wc55oXWf8



That's exactly what I've always thought of when playing MoM!

Replies to other comments coming soon - breakfast first!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Guillaume Zork
France
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Wow !!

I do not have the time for detailled comments right now (but I will soon :-), but I do think that most of your ides are really well thought.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris J Davis
United Kingdom
London
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Overtext pending moderation...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Preliminary ideas for Blood Ties are up. I say preliminary cos I'm not sure I'm 100% finished yet - I may want to change some of the Clue cards.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris J Davis
United Kingdom
London
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Overtext pending moderation...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
salty53 wrote:
Looks very nice overall. A couple of questions/comments:

bleached_lizard wrote:
Change Event 1 to:
3A: A fiery figure bolts down the hallway towards the bedroom.
Place a zombie in Hallway 2 with a fire token on him. The keeper gains the “Pyromania” action card.
3B: The skinless remains of a man throws open the door of the laboratory.
Place a zombie in the foyer. Each investigator takes 1 horror and the keeper receives the “Raise Dead” action card.

I love the theme here, I love that this makes the scenario more varied, and my original misgivings about killing Maniacs becoming unimportant were alleviated with your changes to Raise Dead. I do, however, have one question, which really applies to this whole revision but is most prominent here: a lot of these changes seem to be pro-Keeper, this one most especially. Does this not run the risk of making things too hard for the Investigators?


I also plan on going through every single exploration card and investigator ability and revising those too. Some of the abilities are just useless at the moment, so that will give a little boost to the investigators. Also, I'm quite of the belief that players tend to play a game (especially a game like this, which is more about the story than real strategy) only of the skill level that is required of them. If the game suddenly requires them to employ more clever tactics, they will.

Quote:
bleached_lizard wrote:
Now, the objective is only auto-revealed for 1A and 1B. This is to prevent a problem I have seen occur in too many of my games where the objective is to escape: that the investigators just happen to be right next to the exit when Event 4 reveals the objective and they just say "oh" and step out for the win, even if they had been performing really badly up until that point.

Love it.

bleached_lizard wrote:
Change Raise Dead to:
Whenever an investigator, zombie, cultist or cult leader is killed, place a corpse marker in its space.
Diminishing Action: Perform 1 of the following:
- Place 1 corpse marker in the Gaveyard or Crypt.
- Replace a corpse marker that has been in play since the beginning of this game round with a zombie.

To limit Raise Dead only to monsters that cannot reappear once killed (like maniacs and witches).

You don't seem to have specified a cost for using Raise Dead. This is especially relevant as the original card had different costs for the two effects, which seems to interact with the new Diminishing Action rule in an interesting way.


Oops. It was meant to be 1 for both. Seeing as it is now a diminishing action, it would cost 2 for the second action regardless of which the keeper chooses. I think this is acceptable. Thoughts?

Quote:
bleached_lizard wrote:
Change Uncontrollable Urges to:
(1)
Diminishing Action: Choose an investigator to test his remaining Sanity:
Fail: You may move him to an adjacent space or force him to resolve an action from 1 of his spell, artifact, equipment or tome cards (you make all relevant choices).

To make Uncontrollable Urges the main focus of sanity loss for this scenario (another design objective: to make sanity "important" in a scenario for more than just trauma cards).

Beautiful. The only thing is that I don't really like the way that, as-written, using this one one Investigator makes it more expensive to use this on another Investigator in the same turn. Uncontrollable Urges is by design a situational Keeper Action that will only be used occasionally when circumstances happen to make it useful; while stopping the Keeper from playing it on the same Investigator repeatedly easily makes sense, I don't like that the Keeper is punished just because the two Investigators who entered positions in which this is useful happened to do so in the same turn, since those two uses will generally be unrelated; it would be nice if the cost only increased for using this on the targeted Investigator, not globally.


Hmm... I think it's fine, though. The occasions when the keeper will want to use it on more than one investigator will be relatively rare (and on three even rarer), so I think it's okay. This card really should be labelled "FOR EMERGENCIES ONLY" anyway, and I think this change reflects that.

Quote:
bleached_lizard wrote:
Change Event 2 to:
The keeper gains threat equal to half the total damage the investigators have taken (rounded down).

The original effect was boring and basically just refunded the keeper for doing nothing. This is a bit more interesting and implies that the cultists need the investigators' blood to perform their ceremony.

Looks nice, but the wording is ambiguous here. Is damage that Investigators took but subsequently healed counted? Is damage that Investigators who died and were replaced took counted? What about spillover damage past that which was needed to kill them (i.e. if a Shoggoth deals 4 damage to an Investigator with only 1 health left, is that counted as 4 damage or 1)? What if one of those Investigators died due to The Only Way Out or a similar automatic kill effect; are they considered to have taken damage equal to their remaining health before dying? And how are players supposed to remember all of this?

It seems best to make it clear that what this is really counting is the difference between each Investigator's maximum and current health; it's the phrase "have taken" that implies that damage taken in the past but that is no longer visible might still be counted.


Will change the wording to be less ambiguous.

Quote:
bleached_lizard wrote:
Change Objective 1C to:
The keeper may reveal this objective if a zombie, a Hound of Tindalos and a Shoggoth are in each of the following rooms: Chapel, Study, Corner Hallway 2.

So the keeper has to have one of each type, rather than just whatever is the cheapest.

We've found that the Keeper's win condition in Objective 1C is extremely easy to fulfill, and this doesn't look like it will change that.


Any suggestions?

Quote:
bleached_lizard wrote:
Change Summoning to:
Action: Kill any number of cultists in one room and pay an equal amount of threat to place the corresponding monster in the same room:
1: Zombie
2: Hound of Tindalos
3: Shoggoth

To re-balance the costs of each monster more appropriately.

Wonderful. The only thing that concerns me is that the 1-cost Zombie can effectively be used to easily fully heal an injured Cultist and move it twice in one turn. Something that allows damage from the sacrificed Cultists to carry over to the Summoned monster might be a nice way around that. Alternatively, you might just decide that that isn't really an issue, but one Threat to fully heal a Cultist and give it a couple of extra buffs (albeit with nerfed Awareness) seems a tad silly to me.


Good point. May just add "All total damage on the killed cultists is carried over to the placed monster."

Quote:
bleached_lizard wrote:
Change Summon Worshippers to:
Restricted Action: Choose a space containing an altar. Place a cultist in that space.

I'd have gone for Diminishing rather than Restricted here, but this looks fine as well.


I did consider it (as we'd discussed it before ), but I really do prefer restricted in this instance.

Quote:
Overall, though, bar a few minor quibbles, this looks like a nice improvement over the official version of the scenarios (and these are two of the scenarios I liked best in their original form, so that's quite something).


Thanks! I'm eager to hear what you think of what I've done with Blood Ties (I know another one of your faves).

Now, on to Classroom Curses... god help me.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris J Davis
United Kingdom
London
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Overtext pending moderation...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Nicola Zee wrote:
bleached_lizard wrote:
Wow guys, thanks! modest

cferejohn wrote:
1.5 seems like it might be the right number, but that's obviously difficult.


Yes, I agree. I just have to think of a 'clean' way to implement that.


Personally, I'm not that bothered with the issues with 'Take Sample' - but if you want a simple way of applying 0.5 threat cost, just force the Keeper to dsicard a Mythos or Trauma card. Evil Presence costs 1 threat for 2 cards. 1 card, therefore, costs 0.5 threat.


It would actually be better if it was "draw a Mythos card", for two reasons:

- If the Keeper doesn't hold any Mythos cards, discarding one becomes irrelevant.
- The Keeper would get to choose cards to discard that were useless to him anyway (a random draw of a Mythos card is worth 0.5 threat, which is not the same as an informed discard). Though you could always force him to discard randomly, of course.

Anyway, I think I'm gonna go with the "+X now, +1/turn" idea, as it also solves a problem with my original idea that I had in that if you deliver a sample right towards the end of the game it's useless.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris J Davis
United Kingdom
London
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Overtext pending moderation...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hinnyboy wrote:
Great initiative, and great job!

I like this a lot. If the scenarios become balanced and interesting this, for me, will mean that this game actually gets playtime. As it is now I haven't touched the box in a long time.

Now over to some practical issues. I don't have any problem at all with printing new Keeper Actions, Objectives and Event cards (this is a limited set of cards), but perhaps modifying the exploration cards (i.e clue cards etc.) should be avoided at an extent.

The reason for this is that I don't want to be able to distinguish what exploration card are modified (most likely clues) just by a glance, and I don't want to print a completely new set of exploration cards (and possibly lock and obstacle cards as well). My wish is that I can use as much of the original components as possible.

Now the good thing, if you decide to give in to my wish, is that you have only created 3 new exploration cards for the first two stories (namely clue 2a, 2b and clue 1a for the Inner Sanctum). Hopefully this can be avoided by utilising other means.

The solution to clue 1a is obviously to include this information in the objective card instead - as you have written it, or by giving access to another keeper action card ("Creatures of the Night" for instance).

The problem with the ladder can maybe be mentioned in set-up instructions/general rules for this scenario (for instance, "When a ladder is placed on the board, place another ladder in the chapel in the indicated spot/upper right corner.")

Again, great initiative! Keep it up!

/Henning


One of the reasons I haven't done this before now is because the thought of having to create and sleeve all the exploration cards as well caused me to fail my sanity check. But it looks like in some cases it's gonna be necessary, so I'm just gonna press on with it.

I'll try to avoid changing too many of the exploration cards if I can, but I doubt it's going to be possible. And in fact, if I'm to change *any* of the exploration cards, then more is better, to help confuse players as to which cards could be which. It'll just involve a lot more cutting up.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris J Davis
United Kingdom
London
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Overtext pending moderation...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hinnyboy wrote:
bleached_lizard wrote:
Setup Instructions
Place vent markers in the following locations:
Secret Passage (on the rug)
Furnace room (on the space with the furnace)
Bathroom 1

To make it more desirable to summon Hounds of Tindalos.


This will create an interesting tactical choice of what to summon - I like it.

Though it's an easy thing to do, you will need to provide a third vent marker as the game only come with two =)



Dammit. I just presumed there were at least three. Have amended the setup instructions to include only two vents.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris J Davis
United Kingdom
London
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Overtext pending moderation...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Amendments to Classroom Curses are up. It's the one with the most changes so far (obviously) and is therefore the most complicated and prone to error, so would appreciate it if anyone could read over it in detail and pick out any problems or loopholes.

I'm gonna be away for the next three days. Will start working on Green-Eyed Boy when I get back.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Roberta Yang
msg tools
bleached_lizard wrote:
Add to scenario special rules:
If the Blood Relative is killed, the keeper gains an additional 5 threat.

In line with the new standard rule for killing investigators.

This actually just made me notice: your rule has the Keeper gain 5 Threat whenever an Investigator dies, not just before the Objective is revealed. I'd recommend making the 5 Threat bonus go away when the Objective is revealed; otherwise, the Keeper is still encouraged to wait until post-reveal to kill Investigators, and there's a strong incentive to go for the "kill all Investigators" default win condition instead of the Objective in question, which seems to make things less interesting.

bleached_lizard wrote:
Zombies are immune to the effects of fire. Instead, whenever a zombie ends its turn in a room on fire, it becomes a flaming zombie; place a fire token on the zombie to denote this. A flaming zombie gains -1 to its horror rating and +1 to its damage rating.

In accordance with the change to objective 1B, as well as to give flaming zombies a use in other objectives.

Very nice. Because fire destroys corpses and burns Zombies to death, I've noticed that the Keeper rarely uses Pyromaniac more than a couple of times and instead relies primarily on Zombie swarms alone (unless the Keeper is focusing all Threat on burning the entire map); allowing the Zombies and fire to work together is brilliant.

bleached_lizard wrote:
Change Event 1 to:
The blood relative must choose 1 of the following:
- Choose an investigator to take 1 horror and receive any spell card.
- Place a mi-go in his space.

To make sure the spell is useful regardless of who was randomly chosen as the blood relative.

Change Event 3 to:
If the blood relative chose an investigator to receive a spell card for Event 1, he must now choose 1 of the following for the keeper to perform:
- Place 1 sample token on the altar.
- Place a fire marker in a room adjacent to a room already on fire.
- Deal 1 horror and 1 damage to the blood relative.

Very nice. The one thing that concerns me is that the Sample token option seems like it will almost always be one of the harshest options due to the new Threat per turn per Sample rule; if the extra 10 Threat over the course of the game that that option would grant the Keeper isn't enough to set a single room on fire or deal a measly 1 Horror + 1 Damage to the blood relative, the Keeper is doing something very wrong.

To make this event more about the investigators trying to deduce what the keeper's objective is before it is actually revealed.

bleached_lizard wrote:
Change Objective 1B to:
The keeper wins if the following rooms are on fire: Guest Bedroom, Storage Closet, Entryway, Front Porch, Mud Room, Storage Shed, Root Cellar, Furnace Room.

Because objective 1B in the original game was ridiculous. Additionally, this objective is more in line with the theme for the corresponding story - that the house is built on an ancient cult burial site, and the zombies are not happy about it.

It's certainly more interesting than the standard Objective 1B, but I do need to ask: how are the Investigators expected to combat this? Once flaming Zombies have added a couple of extra Fire tokens to the map (and the Investigators would need to kill them all in one turn to stop them from doing so) and the Keeper becomes able to start passing Pyromaniac's die roll for the fire to spread, the Investigators don't seem like they have many options for blocking this, even with their one lone Fire Extinguisher. This looks like it runs the risk of running too close to multiple solitaire.

bleached_lizard wrote:
Replace two of the Nothing of Interest cards with the Torch and the Ceremonial Skull. If you own Forbidden Alchemy, replace a further Nothing of Interest with True Magick.

Replace all references to the Ceremonial Skull and the Lantern in the seed cards with Dhol Chants and Nameless Cults, respectively.

Interesting.

bleached_lizard wrote:
Scenario Special Rules
In this scenario, if an investigator is in a room with a lock card, they must first reveal and resolve the lock card when attempting to leave. They may not leave the room until the lock is discarded.

See Clue 3, below.

This is a much more intuitive way of implementing the "locked in" mechanic, and makes a lot more thematic sense. I like it a lot.

bleached_lizard wrote:
Change Event 2 to:
4B: For the rest of the game, investigators who end their turn in the Freezer gain a stun token and investigators in the Freezer during the Investigator Trading Step do not discard stun tokens.

To make the Freezer effect more distinctive compared to the Furnace Room effect.

Looks great. I think it's quite telling that when people are trying to think of something positive to say about Classroom Curses, they always cite the Furnace Room as interesting - and never say the same thing about the Freezer, because, let's face it, the Freezer isn't interesting. I like it.

bleached_lizard wrote:
Change Event 3 to:
For each sample token on an altar, the keeper may perform one of the following:
- Add or remove a darkness token on the board.
- Remove a fire token from the board.
- Gain 1 threat.

To give the altars and Take Sample card an actual use in this scenario.

Nice. It's good to see uses for Altars and Samples other than "you need this to win the game". And it's a vast improvement on the original Event 3, which actually gave away the Objective.

bleached_lizard wrote:
Change Objective 1A to:
The keeper discards the Uncontrollable Urges action card. When an investigator sets fire to the Tower Room, Study, Laboratory or Gallery, he may also remove 1 time token from the Event deck.
---
The keeper wins if the last Event card is revealed.
---
The investigators win if every investigator escapes from the Gallery and either hold a total of 4 spell cards or the following rooms are on fire: Tower Room, Study, Laboratory, Gallery.
Razing the school building to the ground, you bolt out the front door. In the following weeks, officials tear the stone tower down to its foundations.

An attempt to make this scenario a little more interesting and distinct compared to the others.

Ooh, interesting. I really like this sort of twist on the standard "everyone escapes the house" Objective. (Especially since the vanilla one in practice usually translates to "Did you happen to be standing near the doorway when the Objective was revealed? If so, you win. Did the Keeper manage to kill a single Investigator throughout the course of the entire game? If so, you lose.") I would like to see the Investigators given a bit of wiggle room here to avoid the latter problem, though; with the extra monsters, it should be easy for the Keeper to kill off one measly Investigator, and having the entire team lose when that happens would make the game extremely difficult for the Investigators.

bleached_lizard wrote:
Change Objective 1C to:
When this objective is revealed place Helena (a named witch) in the Library and discard all Lock cards. Helena has +4 health per investigator.
---
The keeper wins if a mi-go kills an investigator.
---
The investigators win if Helena Detaigne (the named witch) is killed and either no mi-go are on the board or an investigator carrying the Ceremonial Skull is in the same room as a mi-go.

To again make the end game a little more interesting and to give a use to the Ceremonial Skull.

Just a clarification: if the Investigators kill Helena when there is a Mi-Go on the board and no Investigator with a Ceremonial Skull is in a Mi-Go's room, do the Investigators become unable to win, or can they still win when the Mi-Go is killed or caught by the skull-holder? Also, it seems worth noting that the Vents make it quite easy for the Mi-Go to run away.

bleached_lizard wrote:
Change Darkness to:
(2)
Action: Place a darkness token in any room. Then, if there are no Hounds of Tindalos on the board, pay 3 threat to place one in the same room.
Your Hounds of Tindalos may not enter rooms that are not in darkness but may move between rooms in darkness as if they were adjacent.

For the obvious reason that Darkness is incredibly, incredibly boring and annoying. Plus, gives the keeper a way to bring at least one monster on to the board if all others are dead.

This really gets around the core problem with this scenario; I like it a lot. The one thing I really don't like is combining this with Take Sample. It seems like giving the Hound the ability to Command Minion to teleport in, Take Sample to teleport out to the Altar, only to drop of a Sample there and do the same thing next turn is more than a bit much, especially with the new Take Sample allowing Samples to generate more Threat every turn and giving the monster an attack in the process. It really looks like a recipe for the Keeper getting ridiculously large amounts of Threat fairly easily.


bleached_lizard wrote:
Oops. It was meant to be 1 for both. Seeing as it is now a diminishing action, it would cost 2 for the second action regardless of which the keeper chooses. I think this is acceptable. Thoughts?

Hmmm, 1 to revive a Zombie seems a bit cheap, but the new version prevents Zombies from being resurrected the moment they're killed, so that delay might be able to make up for it. I'll have to actually play with it to see, but in theory it seems workable.

bleached_lizard wrote:
salty53 wrote:
We've found that the Keeper's win condition in Objective 1C is extremely easy to fulfill, and this doesn't look like it will change that.


Any suggestions?

It's hard to come up with a well-balanced "kill Investigators" Objective in a combat-heavy scenario when "kill all Investigators" is already a default win condition. We could borrow Season of the Witch's "kill half the Investigators (rounded up) during the finale", or force the Keeper to go after not just any Investigator but one specific Investigator, like "kill the Investigator who found Clue 1 (OR Event 5 triggers and Clue 1 has not been found)", which actually mirrors the Investigators' win condition in this Objective nicely.

bleached_lizard wrote:
Good point. May just add "All total damage on the killed cultists is carried over to the placed monster."

Could do, though all total damage seems a bit harsh - it makes it possible for a new Hound of Tindalos to self-destruct as soon as it is placed! I'd probably go with carrying over the damage from the killed Cultist with the most damage or something like that (especially since if multiple Cultists are together, the Investigators should be focusing their fire to kill one of them instead of just wounding each of them anyhow).
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nicola Zee
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
salty53 wrote:
bleached_lizard wrote:
Add to scenario special rules:
If the Blood Relative is killed, the keeper gains an additional 5 threat.

In line with the new standard rule for killing investigators.

This actually just made me notice: your rule has the Keeper gain 5 Threat whenever an Investigator dies, not just before the Objective is revealed. I'd recommend making the 5 Threat bonus go away when the Objective is revealed; otherwise, the Keeper is still encouraged to wait until post-reveal to kill Investigators, and there's a strong incentive to go for the "kill all Investigators" default win condition instead of the Objective in question, which seems to make things less interesting.


How about replacing the special rule with a new Keeper Action Card?
If you, also, want to boost samples, I'm thinking along the lines of the following:

RITUAL KILLING (0 Threat Cost)
If an investigator is killed, the Keeper may discard a sample token from any altar to gain 2 Threat.

In addition, if the final objective has not been revealed, the Keeper gains threat equal to the number of starting investigators.

Then discard this card,
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5  Next »  [13] | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.