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Subject: Game too easy? rss

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John Driscoll
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Howdy,

I bought this game for my gf and I and have played 7 games of the base set up to now. We love the game and I actually went out and bought all the expansions that were available but haven't tried them yet.

In all our 7 games we won each time and other than maybe the first two games being a little close due to misunderstanding rules and so on, we are really never close to failing a quest. Our last game of the harder quest (supposingly 7 diff.) ended up giving us a score of 51.

We love the game but wish their could be harder quests and as I look at custom made quests, all I see are quests between 4 and 7 difficulty.

Is it because we are two that it's so easy? Or that we each use 3 heroes?

We also haven't customized our decks yet, we just take the 3 heroes and all the cards of that one sphere and play that way. If it's be ause we have 3 heroes that it's so easy then I guess we can reduce but I would rather quests be harder than having to use only 1 or 2 heroes because using 3 is just a lot of fun.

Anyway looking for input please, thanks.
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MGS
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The base set is not too easy. The third scenario is tough. Last guy I saw saying that it was easy, was making some rules mistakes including not realizing that a card was unique (the one that gives leadership 2 resources every turn - forget the name). I would double check if you are getting all the rules right.

The game is easier with 2 for sure.
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John Driscoll
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Yes I know about the unique symbols.

Our latest were with the spheres with gimli and eowyns and the games were really too easy.

Maybe we got lucky with the card randomness?
 
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Duke Of Lizards
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Ronaldo wrote:
The base set is not too easy. The third scenario is tough. Last guy I saw saying that it was easy, was making some rules mistakes including not realizing that a card was unique (the one that gives leadership 2 resources every turn - forget the name). I would double check if you are getting all the rules right.

The game is easier with 2 for sure.


Agreed. The third scenario can be downright hard, depending on draws from the encounter deck. Even the second scenario beat me down several times when I was using the basic monosphere decks in the core set. Are you absolutely sure you're playing correctly?
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Jonas
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One rule I think is easy to miss, and makes the game very easy. Is if you are not committing characters to quests, it is sometimes mistakenly thought that you don't take threat. However if you don't commit any characters to questing, then you actually take full threat (total threat in the current quest)
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Bart Rachemoss
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daengineer wrote:
We also haven't customized our decks yet, we just take the 3 heroes and all the cards of that one sphere and play that way.

If you are using the stock decks from the core set and easily beating the 2nd and 3rd core scenarios then I too would suspect that you are not playing it correctly.

There have been probably a dozen posts by people who just started playing who said it was too easy. All of them were making mistakes that made the game easier than it is supposed to be. There are video tutorials that show people playing the game. There are also some extremely detailed session reports where people have written down their every move. If you look at some of these, you should be able to soon see if you were following the rules correctly.

If you are able to beat it right out of the box with the correct rules, congratulations! You can ramp up the difficulty by revealing one or two extra encounter cards per turn.

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Michail Giannis
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If you are using the stock decks from the core set and easily beating the 2nd and 3rd core scenarios then I too would suspect that you are not playing it correctly.


+1


Maybe you are missing a rule or something.
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Richard Morris
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MountainRoot wrote:
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If you are using the stock decks from the core set and easily beating the 2nd and 3rd core scenarios then I too would suspect that you are not playing it correctly.


+1


Maybe you are missing a rule or something.


+127

With just 2 single sphere decks out of the box, even the most experienced players would struggle. I think it is virtually certain that you are missing a rule or two. Most new threads by newbies complain about the game being broken because it is too hard.
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Rodney "Watch It Played" Smith
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Could I suggest maybe giving my first couple videos in the Watch It Played series on this a watch? It might help you find any rules mistakes, if you'd rather not go back through the manual.

It's in the video section for this game.

/Shameless self promotion off
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Cracky McCracken
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chessduffer wrote:
One rule I think is easy to miss, and makes the game very easy. Is if you are not committing characters to quests, it is sometimes mistakenly thought that you don't take threat. However if you don't commit any characters to questing, then you actually take full threat (total threat in the current quest)


This right here. The wording of this part of the rulebook is a bit wonky imo. I thought if the Heros didn't commit to quests, than they didn't suffer the threat attack from the staging area each turn. But they do and my winning streak ended abruptly when i started playing this bit right.
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Matt
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Pelvidar wrote:
Could I suggest maybe giving my first couple videos in the Watch It Played series on this a watch? It might help you find any rules mistakes, if you'd rather not go back through the manual.

It's in the video section for this game.

/Shameless self promotion off


The Watch It Played videos are great! Here's the link to the first one for the LoTR:LCG game. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80gFPirxZA0

You may be able to skip some parts that explain the concept of the game, but I'd watch the rules summary and at least a few turns to see if you're interpreting turn order differently than how it's executed in the videos.
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William Hawk
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Words can't describe how much I hate that troll starting out on the second quest.It has beat me down a many a time, especially last weekend.
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John Davis
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I'm surprised if you're finding Anduin and Dol Goldur easy with two starter decks - you must be experienced gamers to have mastered the game so quickly.

Since most players seem to find the game a lot more challenging than you do, it's possible that you are making a rules error somewhere. I've played the game for several months and I'm still finding rules I have been getting wrong!

Common errors include not realizing quest resolution still occurs even if no characters are questing, and not following the timing rules correctly for when you can play actions (often a problem for players of other CCGs).

Are you playing with the shadow cards? They make the game a lot more challenging.

I have posted a few quests on this site. My latest one, "Sarn Gorwing", is designed to be a challenge for competitive constructed decks. Why not give it a try? I'd be surprised if you can beat it reliably with two starter decks. If you try it, I'd love to hear how you get on!

Best wishes, John
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Chris Schenck
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On my first play a few nights ago, a friend and I took the prebuilt Lore and Leadership decks and tried to play the first scenario. We (foolishly) only picked 2 Heroes each, because the rulebook made it sound like there was a decision to be made about trading off fewer Heroes for less starting Threat. We got absolutely thrashed. It wasn't even close.

So I figured I must have been playing something wrong. I did some research here on BGG, and found out that I indeed was playing wrong. I made the common mistake of not realizing there was a Quest threat step even when we didn't commit Heroes to the quest. So the wrong way we were playing it was actually to our advantage, and we still got our asses kicked! To make things worse, this was a Difficulty 1 quest. Sigh.

Not hopeful that the game was even playable due to its ridiculous difficulty, we tried it again. This time, we each used 3 Heroes. That makes a HUGE difference. We won the next two plays of that first scenario -- but not by much! Our scores were in the upper 70s each time. We're both old Magic the Gathering players too, so we're not noobs when it comes to the tactics of CCG-style gameplay.

No, this game is definitely not too easy. If you think it is, try winning a scenario using the prebuilt decks and only 2 Heroes.

I'm giving the highest of marks to this game after a few more plays, because it's absolutely fantastic. I'm very happy with it now, even though it's tough to beat some of the scenarios.
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John Driscoll
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Well let me try to recap ou game quickly and maybe you will see flaws.

So firstly, we took spirit and tactics with 3 heroes each. My gf had Beord, an armor and gandalf which was a great random. I had some good supports plus a tracker which is essential imo.

So we lost Gimli to being a prisoner which sucks. But Eowyn wouldve been worse imo.

We put 3 encoutner cards on the objectives, 2 of which were treachery cards which didnt hurt us very much and one which was an enemy which was easy to kill which actually helped us. It helped us because my gf was able to defend and kill and use Legolas skill to add 2 tokens to the quest.

It took us a while to get rolling as we were barely putting a dent in the quest each turn as the staging area had a fair amount of value which we would beat by 1 or 2 each turn. I took the objective which makes you not attack or defend and put it on Eowyn and she never attacks anyway.

With Beorn out we finally and I had 1 tracker out which was able to take down locations without actually travelling to them it was pretty much GG with Gimli coming out with his armor. I also got the 2nd tracker out early so locations were being completed extremely fast without actually travelling to them.

Once we hit the 2nd objective, my gf had Gimli out and Boern still alive with another character so she engaged Nazgul and played the card which stops him from attacking this turn. She then had all 4 characters attacking him and easily took him down since she didnt have to defend.

I also got the card out, I think called unexpected courage which I played on Gimli which allowed him to defend and attack or attack twice (2 different monsters).

We gave both objectives left to Thain and she took the threat hit but I played the card which removes 6 threat on her twice which gave us a decent threat score at the end.

To summarize, we got both trackers out, two armors on gimli (we didnt need 2 but still played both on him since hes allowed 2 restricted items).

To summarize, both of these spheres with unexpecte courage, Beorn, armor and two trackers out seem almost impossible to lose. Trackers being an extremely strong ally imo.
 
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John Driscoll
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jrd23 wrote:
I'm surprised if you're finding Anduin and Dol Goldur easy with two starter decks - you must be experienced gamers to have mastered the game so quickly.

Since most players seem to find the game a lot more challenging than you do, it's possible that you are making a rules error somewhere. I've played the game for several months and I'm still finding rules I have been getting wrong!

Common errors include not realizing quest resolution still occurs even if no characters are questing, and not following the timing rules correctly for when you can play actions (often a problem for players of other CCGs).

Are you playing with the shadow cards? They make the game a lot more challenging.

I have posted a few quests on this site. My latest one, "Sarn Gorwing", is designed to be a challenge for competitive constructed decks. Why not give it a try? I'd be surprised if you can beat it reliably with two starter decks. If you try it, I'd love to hear how you get on!

Best wishes, John


I will definately give it a try, thanks!

And yes I know if you don't send anyone for questing you get it all as threat but this has never happened, and only once in all our games have we received some threat due to not having enough willpower strength.
 
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snailien
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Did you reveal one card per player during the staging step of each round?

Did your captured hero collect resources? If so, he shouldn't have.

How about engagement checks? One rule that I didn't realize for a while, since I hadn't played multiplayer much, was that each player is only allowed to optionally engage one enemy per encounter phase (in player order). After that, all enemies in the staging area with an engagement cost equal to or lower than the players' threat level(s) will engage the players (in a more specific way than I just explained).

Maybe you were playing it right, but it seems awfully lucky to get through Dol Guldur that easily, especially with the starter decks. One benefit of the starter decks, however, is that they are focused for one particular thing so you can play cards more easily, as opposed to spreading your resources among several spheres. Plus, the decks are much smaller than constructed decks tend to be.

 
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John Driscoll
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snailien wrote:
Did you reveal one card per player during the staging step of each round?

Did your captured hero collect resources? If so, he shouldn't have.

How about engagement checks? One rule that I didn't realize for a while, since I hadn't played multiplayer much, was that each player is only allowed to optionally engage one enemy per encounter phase (in player order). After that, all enemies in the staging area with an engagement cost equal to or lower than the players' threat level(s) will engage the players (in a more specific way than I just explained).

Maybe you were playing it right, but it seems awfully lucky to get through Dol Guldur that easily, especially with the starter decks. One benefit of the starter decks, however, is that they are focused for one particular thing so you can play cards more easily, as opposed to spreading your resources among several spheres. Plus, the decks are much smaller than constructed decks tend to be.



Ya 2 encoutner cards per turn (plus more if we get a doomed card)

My GF had Gimli who was prisoned and was only getting 2 resources per turn as stated.

Ya we know we can only engage voluntarily one enemy per turn each, then we go to the checks to see who gets the rest. We also had a couple enemies stay in the middle for a while as they had 38 and 35 and we were waiting for my gf to get strong enough to kill them without taking damage. We also had that "fly" enemy which does 5 intial damage when engaged but I had my hero kill him in the staging area (The hero which does 2 damage + 1 when attacking the staging area and as far as I know is the only one which can).

Well, it might not only be luck also. I am not trying to grab in this thread or anything but I played poker for living and play a lot of boardgames with friends and such and win the vast majority of time even though we play 3-5 players. Since my job is pretty much "playing a boardgame" all day, I think I have very good skills for board games in general.

I just want to make sure I'm doing everything right and I'm not misplaying a part of the game which makes it too easy.

If this isn't the case then I want to see how to make it harder because I would assume when we actually start creating our own decks we will be even stronger...
 
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daengineer wrote:
Ya 2 encoutner cards per turn (plus more if we get a doomed card)


Doomed actually adds threat. Surge is the one that makes you reveal more cards.

I guess the only way to know for sure if you're making rules errors is if you post a session report to show us exactly what you're doing each turn. I don't know if that's your type of thing, but it should do the trick.

If you're consistently winning easily, it seems unlikely that no errors were made, just because of the nature of the game. Sometimes there's just really nothing you can do depending on how the decks are shuffled, especially with the starter decks.
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Jon Kolman
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mmoberly wrote:
Pelvidar wrote:
Could I suggest maybe giving my first couple videos in the Watch It Played series on this a watch? It might help you find any rules mistakes, if you'd rather not go back through the manual.

It's in the video section for this game.

/Shameless self promotion off


The Watch It Played videos are great! Here's the link to the first one for the LoTR:LCG game. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80gFPirxZA0

You may be able to skip some parts that explain the concept of the game, but I'd watch the rules summary and at least a few turns to see if you're interpreting turn order differently than how it's executed in the videos.


Absolutely agree. The Watch It Played series is unbelievable and teach you pretty much everything there is to know about the game.
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John Driscoll
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snailien wrote:
daengineer wrote:
Ya 2 encoutner cards per turn (plus more if we get a doomed card)


Doomed actually adds threat. Surge is the one that makes you reveal more cards.

I guess the only way to know for sure if you're making rules errors is if you post a session report to show us exactly what you're doing each turn. I don't know if that's your type of thing, but it should do the trick.

If you're consistently winning easily, it seems unlikely that no errors were made, just because of the nature of the game. Sometimes there's just really nothing you can do depending on how the decks are shuffled, especially with the starter decks.


Ya I will do that then tonight when we play. I think we will try doing all 3 quests in a row without reseting threat/hitpoints etc tonight so I will try posting part of our session, I just don't see where we can be making a mistake.

Maybe we got good draws every game thus far, which is possible I assume, since we only played the hard quest twice.

I will try watching that video as well, if I watch the video, I doubt I will need to make a session report, I should be able to see errors one of both ways.
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Cracky wrote:
chessduffer wrote:
One rule I think is easy to miss, and makes the game very easy. Is if you are not committing characters to quests, it is sometimes mistakenly thought that you don't take threat. However if you don't commit any characters to questing, then you actually take full threat (total threat in the current quest)


This right here. The wording of this part of the rulebook is a bit wonky imo. I thought if the Heros didn't commit to quests, than they didn't suffer the threat attack from the staging area each turn. But they do and my winning streak ended abruptly when i started playing this bit right.


holy crap have my buddy and I been doing that wrong. if you dont quest you take all the threat? how do you defend and quest when there are early crits out? I mean... holy crap.
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John Driscoll
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Played a quick one when I got home, first time I play 1 player.

Draw 3 encounter cards for 3 objectives, mountains of mirk wood, great forest web and dol orcs.

I draw 6 cards, don't repick.

Draw one card.

Get 2 resources.

Don't play anything.

Send eowyn questing and discard strength of will for +1 wp.

Draw an encounter card, get dol beastmaster.

+3 threat

I engage Orc.

Don't defend, no shadow effect, dunhere takes 2 damage and kills Orc.

Take 1 card, 2 resources, play tracker.

Send tracker and eowyn to quest. 1 token on each location.

Draw encounter card.

Dol orc. Does 2 damage to tracker.

Don't defend, eowyn 2 damage, dunhere kills Orc.

No card, shackle was shadow.

Don't play anything.

Eowyn and tracker to quest. One token on each location which takes one out of play.

Treachery which deals 1 damage to everyone, tracker and eowyn die. Game over.
 
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Bart Rachemoss
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daengineer wrote:
I draw 6 cards, don't repick.

Draw one card.

You get 5 cards for your hand, not 6. Then draw one more in the resource phase. It sounds like you started with 6 then added one more for a total of 7. [I was wrong about this.]

Quote:
I engage Orc.

Don't defend, no shadow effect, dunhere takes 2 damage and kills Orc.

Dunhere has an [attack] of 2. Dol Guldur Orcs have 3 [hit points]. Dunhere can't kill Dol Guldur Orcs without something to help him. Dunere's attack boost only works when he is attacking an enemy that is in the staging area. Once you engage the Dol Guldur Orcs, they are no longer in the staging area.

Quote:
Take 1 card, 2 resources, play tracker.
You need to increase your threat by one in the refresh phase at the end of each turn.

Quote:
Don't defend, eowyn 2 damage, dunhere kills Orc.
Same problem as above. 2 [attack] vs. 3 [hit points] won't kill DGO.

Quote:
No card, shackle was shadow.

Don't play anything.
Again, you need to increase your threat by 1 at the end of each turn.

Edit: Highlighted mistake.
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John Driscoll
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Yes sorry I forgot to mention the threat increase but I did it. Ya for Dunhere, was my mistake but was aware of that.

However, we always took 6 cards at the beginning of the game, not 5 and took once extra so that's a mistake we did.

Thanks for the input!
 
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