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Subject: Duel Quests (edit: and others) rss

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Jan Probst
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Kiel
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Finally got my copy of the game, and even got a test game (3P) in right away, yey. Didn't use expansion yet, so before we do, I want to clear more things up.

Today: some of the new quests, specifically duel ones.

The base game duel quests are clear enough. Do seem a bit easy (Notwithstanding that I managed to get beat up by a Sorcerer in our game), what with only needing to inflict 1 damage, but overall success-wise that seems on par with a gold/silver requiring test quest.
Only slight unclarity is what happens when Hero does 1 damage the same duel round a Sorcerer gets an orb - by rulebook one could argue that while damage is simultaneous, non-damage specials are in attacker-defender order. (One could also argue that the Sorc buff doesnt happen because it mentions battle, but come on). I'll generalize the FAQ clarification regarding Minor Healing to this though and assume the Sorcerer lives at 1 dmg of 2 health, so the following questions, where Sorc-related, are based on this assumption.

On to questions about expansion duel quests.

First we have 10A, duel 2 Sorcerers. What? How does this work, the core duel mechanics give zero support for multiple-participant duels. -_-
Do we kinda-sorta handle it like a battle, ie both sorcerers draw fate each duel round, Orb buffs both Sorcs, damage is assigned as per battle rules? Or is it one 1-on-1 duel after the other?
Either way, this seems potentially pretty hard, especially if the Sorc get Orb-buffed. Having to do 4 damage in 4 rounds isn't a picnic.

Next up, 12, duel 1 Giant. What? This seems exceedingly hard. Granted, the other Lost City quests succeed only on gold, so some degree of hard is to be expected, but geez.
Additionally, how to read the "If the hero causes 2+ damage, receive rewards" bit. Is this an instant-duel-end condition, giving the Giant de-facto 2 hit points? I might think not (words like "as soon as", or "immediately" exist and could have been used to indicate this clearly), but surviving full 4 duel rounds against Hex creature seems ludicrous, so I am inclined to read it that way.



 
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Scott Lewis
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Re: Duel Quests
While I agree the rules aren't explicit for the dual-sorcerer battles, I think the inference is pretty easy to get: you fight both simultaneously, but the ability still affects both. So if either gets an orb, both get the extra health. But other than that, it's just the hero drawing 1 card, the sorcerers drawing 2 (until one dies). Is it tough? Sure... but you also get a Dragon Rune out of it as compensation! Harder Quest = Better Reward!

The Giant question you pose is certainly valid; I've already submitted the question as to when the quest ends: immediately upon dealing 2 damage; or after 4 rounds (or defeat of either side), then check. Again, it is a tough quest... but again, you get a better reward (2 rewards!) As an extra consolation, if you do the quest in a lightly-guarded enemy area, the Giant could cause some unexpected damage to the enemy even if you fail!

I agree both quests are hard, but as mentioned, they both give great rewards. They kind of strike me as quests for more "advanced" heroes - IE, heroes that have weapons (or armor) to help them survive and win. An unarmed hero will have a tough chance winning against them, it's true. But a well-armed hero may not have too many issues. But the compensation is worth it.

And if you really are having trouble getting prepped for the quest... well, I do like that having these "harder" quests give you more incentive to actually use the Quest Card option of a city during the Rally Support. In fact, prior to the expansion, I don't recall a single time I ever used it, but with the expansion, there WAS a time where I did (I don't remember which quest; I don't think it was either of these though).

I like the options and the increased difficulty; adds spice and variety to the questing part of the game.
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Jan Probst
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Re: Duel Quests
Good point on the better rewards, true.

Also good point on the advanced heroes thing. Weapons may certainly help with the Sorcerers, but the Giant still seems pretty hardcore, even with a weapon he'll probably get enough rounds to squish any hero between rout icons and hero misses. Not even armor seems to help much, most of them are once-per-combat, that kind of doesn't hold against a Hex 3-3-3-3ing you (ok, hyperbole).
I'll probably run this one as "2 damage ends duel and puts giant on the map as instructed" until further clarication. Hero is too poky so Giant walks off to cause trouble elsewhere seems narratively tight too.

Another point is that, unlike the other 12er quests, this one spawns the Lost City automatically, so one could consider it a "sacrifice hero to get city" thing.

In any case, I'm happy for the increased quest variety in the expansion (including difficulty levels), but these 2 needed some discussion, thanks for the help.
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Jan Probst
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Re: Duel Quests
Uhh, derailing my own thread here, another question about a (non-duel) expansion quest. Don't figure it warrants a separate thread while we're discussing quests already.

Does the Fabled Rune quest make any sense?

As far as I can tell, I can do the following:
- declare move action for my hero
- move into enemy area containing rune token
- look at that token because I have a hero in the area (pg 30 base rules, botton of boxed text)
- reveal said quest, complete it successfully

The "oops, fake rune, take 2 damage and discard quest" outcome would appear to never happen, because I *would not play the quest* if it would fail. Which I know beforehand because heores can look at rune tokens "at any time".

I guess one could consider it a particularly expensive option to deliberately get rid of the quest (instead of just trying again in other areas next Summer), but that seems marginal.

Edit: The intention is obviously to have the hero flip the token right upon entering without getting to look beforehand. Cards breaking core rules is fine, but such clarification-requiring readings on *secret cards* you (especially as a newer player) can't just ask about kinda irk me. Wrote about a page of comments on TI Secret objectives too to hand out in such cases xD)
 
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Reid Delfeld
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Here's another question that came up during a game this week with the giant duel quest.

We were going through duel the giant quest under the assumption that the giant wasn't defeated until his five hit points were gone. My hero inflicted two damage on the giant. The hero immediately received the two rewards for doing this even though we were in the middle of the duel. Eventually, the giant killed my hero. We then dropped the two rewards on the hero's corpse. Then my other hero swooped in to pick up the rewards. What do you think about this interpretation of the quest? Does the hero get the rewards in middle of the duel? (or similarly, does the hero's corpse get the rewards at the end of the duel for inflicting two damage?)

Also, another game my hero canceled in the duel using his special power. We didn't reward any treasures but the lost city appeared and the quest was discarded. Should we have done that? Or would the quest not be completed because the duel wasn't carried out?
 
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Scott Lewis
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Rodigee wrote:
Here's another question that came up during a game this week with the giant duel quest.

We were going through duel the giant quest under the assumption that the giant wasn't defeated until his five hit points were gone. My hero inflicted two damage on the giant. The hero immediately received the two rewards for doing this even though we were in the middle of the duel. Eventually, the giant killed my hero. We then dropped the two rewards on the hero's corpse. Then my other hero swooped in to pick up the rewards. What do you think about this interpretation of the quest? Does the hero get the rewards in middle of the duel? (or similarly, does the hero's corpse get the rewards at the end of the duel for inflicting two damage?)

The quest ends immediately upon dealing 2 damage to the Giant - it doesn't say to defeat him, only that you succeed upon dealing 2 damage (assuming you survived). Once you've succeeded, if you survived, you get the Rewards, the Giant trots off to wherever, and all is well.

Quote:
Also, another game my hero canceled in the duel using his special power. We didn't reward any treasures but the lost city appeared and the quest was discarded. Should we have done that? Or would the quest not be completed because the duel wasn't carried out?

If you attempt the Quest, you begin a duel; at that point, you are committed to defeating the creature to succeed. If you then cancel the Duel, the duel does end, but you have failed to meet the conditions of the Quest, and thus it is failed.
 
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Reid Delfeld
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Thanks for the answer. I would like to ask for one clarification. If the duel with the giant is canceled, I agree it would fail. However, would the card be discarded and the Lost City be revealed since the quest says "Regardless, place the lost city in this area, discard this Quest, and draw a new Quest card."? Thanks.
 
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Scott Lewis
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Rodigee wrote:
Thanks for the answer. I would like to ask for one clarification. If the duel with the giant is canceled, I agree it would fail. However, would the card be discarded and the Lost City be revealed since the quest says "Regardless, place the lost city in this area, discard this Quest, and draw a new Quest card."? Thanks.

Yes, as that is the result of the quest, success or fail. The same would also happen if you duel the giant, survive 4 rounds, but don't deal 2 damage. (Note that also when you fail, the Giant will appear in Area 12 and possibly fight any units there, regardless of whether the fail was due to canceling the duel or whatever).
 
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jim washer
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Just a quick point. The giant will only appear in area 12 if there is a giant in the unused supply. If all 4 giants (total in game)are in use, none can be placed in area 12.
 
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racecat wrote:
Just a quick point. The giant will only appear in area 12 if there is a giant in the unused supply. If all 4 giants (total in game)are in use, none can be placed in area 12.

Indeed, good point. (The duel with the hero still happens regardless, of course).
 
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