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Soviet Dawn» Forums » General

Subject: GMT Version rss

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Let's see. I've been looking into several VP titles lately, and I've come really close to the temptation of acquiring a couple.

But reading around, there seems to be a plan in place of having GMT print some of VP's games; No retreat comes to mind, and as far as I know there are more.

So the question is the following, are there any significant (if any at all) changes between the versions? A part from components and maybe artwork?

And which games are being printed by GMT or planned to be? Any lists available? I'd love to support small publishers, but having the games sent to me half way around the world makes LFGS available GMT versions look that much sweeter.
Thanks folks!

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Geo
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Regarding No Retreat there are numerous improvements: proper good quality die-cut counters, mounted board, inclusion of the expansions, latest rules.

You can't compare the two editions, the GMT version is way superior.

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Steve Carey
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Can't argue with any of your points, but keep in mind that a GMT version of any VPG game is going to go through the crowded P500 process and will take some time to see print.

I obviously enjoy the VPG releases very much and have gotten full play value out of almost every title [Disclaimer: I am the designer of two of their current games]. A pro-printed GMT version - like the upcoming Fading Glory Napoleonic quad now on P500 - is only icing on the cake.

I love to support small publishers too, and while GMT has dropped some hints of an upcoming announcement (and various rumors have been floating around), a formal statement has yet to be issued.

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Many thanks for the quick responses guys!

Quote:
I love to support small publishers too, and while GMT has dropped some hints of an upcoming announcement (and various rumors have been floating around), a formal statement has yet to be issued.


Hmm ... I take that in the sense that the range of VP games printed by GMT is about to get expanded, with the possibility of Soviet Dawn being among them? Did i get that correctly?

On a side note, I'm pretty sure VP get their fair share of this deal, so waiting for a near future reprint of some of their stuff doesn't necessarily mean a loss for VP!
 
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Joshua Gottesman
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DarkS0uL wrote:
Many thanks for the quick responses guys!

Quote:
I love to support small publishers too, and while GMT has dropped some hints of an upcoming announcement (and various rumors have been floating around), a formal statement has yet to be issued.


Hmm ... I take that in the sense that the range of VP games printed by GMT is about to get expanded, with the possibility of Soviet Dawn being among them? Did i get that correctly?

On a side note, I'm pretty sure VP get their fair share of this deal, so waiting for a near future reprint of some of their stuff doesn't necessarily mean a loss for VP!


VPG and GMT are in frequent discussions about what games GMT might want to publish in a new edition. However, to call anything "near future" is tricky. Circus Train (First Edition) has been on GMT's P500 for several months, and is at around 350 orders. There's no telling whether it will be 6 months or 2 years or never for it to hit 500 orders. So, while GMT would like to publish an edition of Circus Train, there's no guarantee it will happen. The same applies to Soviet Dawn or any other VPG game. If GMT and VPG reach an agreement, which in many ways is the easy part (its a pleasure to work with the guys at GMT), all that does is get the game a spot on the P500. After that, its up to the public. It could be anywhere from a year to 3 years to never that a GMT edition of a VPG game is actually produced.

Joshua Gottesman
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Rob Rob
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It might be nice to have a new game distribution model. VP distributes a slightly lower quality (but inexpensive) "print on demand" edition of a game while every couple of years (via P500) GMT produces a more costly "deluxe" edition with mounted maps, etc...?
 
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David Kennedy
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DS, here's something you should think about. There is the joy in getting and the joy of playing. Sure, a GMT version of any VPG game would be a pimped-out pleasure. However, it seems likely you'll have to wait a year or two or three to get your hands on it. Would the joy of getting this version be worth the wait; worth forgoing all those years of the joy of playing. Given that you haven't experienced the joy of playing, you probably wouldn't compute there is any actual trade-off.

However, as a hard-core devotee of Soviet Dawn (Bolshevik all the way, baby!), you're missing a lot. Get the game now and play it to death. I have and I'm still playing it. I'm pleased to report, the components have proven quite durable after very heavy play. Would the joy of a pimped version really enhance the value proposition? I guess so. At this point, will it elevate my joy of playing? We'll see. Which is the point. There's no public committment to the GMT version. So you're not waiting for the version to appear. You're waiting for the possibility of an announcement it might appear. I don't like those odds.

I say bust a move. There's a Czar to execute, Kulaks to kill, Mensheviks to massacre, proletariats to exploit. You get the idea. We pass this way but once.

Your move...
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Okay okay I'm sold Not gonna lie, with games like Soviet Dawn +exp, Barbarossa Campaign, and the Zulus siege one it's hard to resist!

In my defense, components were never really a concern for me; it was more about significant rule and game-play changes and such.

But yeah, definitly having them now outweights any wait for a prettier version.

Any special suggestion from the State of Siege series?

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David Kennedy
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DarkS0uL wrote:
Any special suggestion from the State of Siege series?

Soviet Dawn is sublime. But, play is akin to Russian roulette. Things can go south in a heartbeat, particularly with the expansion kit. This is a good thing and a not so good thing. So there isn't a coherent narrative arc. Yep, it's revolutionary chaos. So you'll play it fast and then set it up again and again.

We Must Tell the Emperor is a more solid game experience. It follows the historic arc from Japanese expansion to the brutal American counter-attack. You can lose early on, but the stars really have to align (and they do). Some has felt the game doesn't really come into its own until the end game. I disagree profoundly. I like to play with a good drink.

The Lost Cause is just that. If you dig the American Civil War, you might get a kick out of the detail. But, at the end of the day, the Confederate position is untenable in extremis. Without the romance of the Rebel yell, I couldn't get into this title. I wish I could. It is a beautifully constructed game.

Ottoman Sunset didn't do it for me either. However, I'm in the minority here. Again, like TLC, the Sick Man of Europe is on his way out. I wanted more atmosphere, more something. I didn't find it. Regardless, the game is highly praised. A sequel with the Austro-Hungarian Empire is in works.

Zulus on the Ramparts I haven't sampled because of the tactical nature of the game. Seemed more like an adventure story, which isn't my cup of tea. I must say, the situation fires my imagination. The moment seems to crystalize the zenith of confidence for the British Empire. Alas, the Somme was only a few years away.

Yes, there are other titles. Check out the reviews and forums. It is very important that you connect with the title's theme.

What I most enjoy about Soviet Dawn and WMTTE is the narrative depth they possess. I've written a great deal about them the past couple of years. I found this enhanced and deepened the gaming experience. I'm surprised and delighted they continue to draw me in. Indeed, I still have more thoughts about them which need to get put down. But, this clearly reflects my passions and interests.

One more detail about SoS titles, the more you play, the more fun they become. Early on, you're just figuring stuff out. But, once you have the mechanics down and you begin to see the contours of the event decks, your enjoyment is enhanced greatly. So keep at it.

As for The Barbarossa Campaign, this title is very much in the classic mold of a grand experience. A SoS title plays fast. They are in my mind analogous to poetry. TBC one unfolds like a good novel and is more traditional, despite the completely novel game mechanics. It takes time and rewards you accordingly. I love the rules. One detail, too, is despite the realities of the publishing model of VPG, there are oodles of goodies in the game which fires a grognards imagination. This is the game which I hope GMT picks up. It is big and epic.

Hope that helps, dude. Merry Christmas!
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Many thanks David! Your posts in the several forums of the SoS games have already caught my eye.

It is indeed of great use to have so passionate folks around enhancing and making much easier the research of a particular game one is interested in! I guess we'll be meeting around here once my rule questions start pouring in!
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Steve Carey
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I'd like to add to David's excellent post by also recommending Dawn of the Zeds (First edition). It's a bit more complex and lengthy States of Siege experience, but is well worth it - and it is just dripping with theme (and I'm not really a "zombie guy" per se).
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David Kennedy
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Yea, I forgot to mention Dawn of the Zeds. The feedback I've heard is very high. Alas, I haven't the heart for the theme. I find the whole zombie genre very depressing and sad. I really can't summon anything for the title, despite it's obvious merits as a game.

Also, Steve has a new title out -- Malta Besieged. If it is anything like We Must Tell the Emperor, it should be a blast. Again, does the theme engage?
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Rod Bauer
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States of Siege
With all of the SoS titles mentioned so far, I would like to add to the list. I would highly recommend Levee en Masse. It is one of my favorites.
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Of course, I am partially to Soviet Dawn and The Ottomans (and even the simplicity of Israeli Independence), Levee en Masse is a great addition to the series. Quite educational and it really introduces the resource management aspects that have been grafted on to Emperor and others. The Zeds game is a blast and a great storytelling experience. Of the SoS games that I have played, this is the only one I haven't beaten yet. One of these days . . .
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David Kennedy
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GMT has just announced they are picking up this title as a pre-order.
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