Recommend
9 
 Thumb up
 Hide
16 Posts

Eclipse» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Earliest ways to reliably defeat ancients. rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Peter O
United States
Oakland
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hunting ancients is a great high risk, high reward sport. So when is the earliest you can enjoy it? Surprisingly soon. Ignoring Draco for obvious reasons, 6 out of the six races have better than 50% odds of defeating one by turn 2. Of course, what you consider acceptable odds may differ from me. If my methods don't produce high enough odds for you, you get to wait a couple more turns.

The situation: On your very first turn 1 action you flip over an Ancient hex. What's the earliest you can defeat it?

Starting with the easier races:

Orion Hegemony:
Action 2: Build a second Cruiser
Action 3: optional upgrade the nuclear source to a hull
Action 3 or 4: move in and kick but

Eridani Empire:
Action 2: Build cruiser (using 3 points of money for the fifth resource)
Action 3: Upgrade ships (there are multiple configurations possible, I like adding a hull to the interceptor and gauss shields to the cruiser)
Action 4: Optional 2nd upgrade
Action 4 or 5: Move in

Planta:
Action 2: You can do a turn 1 kill, but stop and question why you just aren't using the planta special of double exploring. But, if you explore all around into Ancients everywhere you have a good turn 2 kill method. Buy dreadnaught. Go to town.

mechanema:
These guys are a little more challenging. It's possible to build a cruiser and send it and your interceptor in but you're likely to lose one. So it's probably better to explore other directions and take the ancients on in turn 2. If you get at least one Materials marker you are in range of building a dreadnaught or sending 4 interceptors in.

Terrans and Hydrans:
You guys are out of luck for turn 1. Terrans can efficiently send in 3 interceptors with dual ion cannons on turn two for reasonable odds. Hydrans can as well except they need to spend an extra action. Probably better for them to build a cruiser and hope for some good techs to help upgrades.


5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Riku Riekkinen
Finland
Jyväskylä
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
We've had Orion Hegemony do:
1) Explore Sector 1, if ancients found do:
2) Research Improved Hull
3) Upgrade Crusers (Replace Hull & Nuclear Source with 2 Improved Hulls)
4) Explore Sector 3 (Optional)
5) Attack Sector 1

Then on the next round Hegemony builds more ships and attacks the Galactic Center.

Eridani opts sometimes for Dreadnaught right away.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
JonGetsGames
United States
CA
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Riku Riekkinen wrote:

Then on the next round Hegemony builds more ships and attacks the Galactic Center.


Wow, i've only played one game so far (all terrans) but the idea of the Hegemony having a viable turn 3 GCDS kill is scary! Can't wait for game 2 with aliens.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Riku Riekkinen
Finland
Jyväskylä
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
HappyHexagon wrote:
Riku Riekkinen wrote:

Then on the next round Hegemony builds more ships and attacks the Galactic Center.


Wow, i've only played one game so far (all terrans) but the idea of the Hegemony having a viable turn 3 GCDS kill is scary! Can't wait for game 2 with aliens.


In last 3 games in witch Hegemony has been in, it has captured GCDS on turn 2 using somting like that. Notably Improved Hull has always been option right away.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Remy Gibson
United States
flag msg tools
http://boardgametop10s.com/audio/bg10.xml
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The reason Orion is so great for going after Ancients/GCDS is the Gauss Shield. That little -1 might not seem to be such a big deal, but remember that it halves the effectiveness of those heptagons. I think Gauss Shield is a cheap, effective addition for Ancient-hunting for any race.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Petri Savola
Finland
Espoo
Unspecified
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
If you play Mechanema, purchase plasma missiles as soon as possible (turn 2 if you find +5 science, turn 3 otherwise). Spend two actions to upgrade two plasma missiles and two +2 computers to cruiser and one plasma missile and one +2 computer to interceptor. Now your interceptor has more than 75% chance of defeating a single ancient alone and two cruisers can easily kill the GCDS.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marten Wortel
Netherlands
flag msg tools
mb
Riku Riekkinen wrote:
We've had Orion Hegemony do:
1) Explore Sector 1, if ancients found do:
2) Research Improved Hull
3) Upgrade Crusers (Replace Hull & Nuclear Source with 2 Improved Hulls)
4) Explore Sector 3 (Optional)
5) Attack Sector 1

Then on the next round Hegemony builds more ships and attacks the Galactic Center.

Eridani opts sometimes for Dreadnaught right away.


You should reverse steps 1) and 2), because if you play versus good players, Improved Hull will be gone. Actually, you have to be very lucky to get Improved Hull at turn 1 at all.

The double cruiser with an additional Hull works fine, though.

I have no experience with Eridani. For other races building a Dreadnought in turn 2 is best I think. If you also get either Gauss Shield or Improved Hull (obviously prefer Improved Hull), or even both, one Dreadnought with Gauss shield and 2 hulls can comfortably take an Ancient. I sometimes research Gauss Shield in turn 1 to be sure to do this, if there is only one copy. It is a cheap invention which will pay its cost back through discounts anyway.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Riku Riekkinen
Finland
Jyväskylä
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
Wortel wrote:
You should reverse steps 1) and 2), because if you play versus good players, Improved Hull will be gone. Actually, you have to be very lucky to get Improved Hull at turn 1 at all.


Since Improved Hull isn't absolutely necessary, I see the others cutting you off sector 1 a bigger threat (or not finding ancients). Well,
its still researched sometimes first. And I play against good players
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott DeMers
United States
Denver
Colorado
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Funny that you all reference playing against "good players" when the game has been out for about a week and a half.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mathue Faulkner
United States
Austin
TX
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
sdmers wrote:
Funny that you all reference playing against "good players" when the game has been out for about a week and a half.

Being from Finlad, I'm betting that Riku has a lot more experience than the rest of us...

Possibly even a playtester??
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mikko Saari
Finland
flag msg tools
http://www.lautapeliopas.fi/ - the best Finnish board game resource!
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yeah, there are folks in Finland who have been playing Eclipse for more than a year now.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Julian
Spain
Madrid
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mb
msaari wrote:
Yeah, there are folks in Finland who have been playing Eclipse for more than a year now.


So it's not 30 minutes per player as stated on the box!

:p
18 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Geoff Speare
United States
Bedford
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
badge
tee hee, that tickles!!!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
zorro_jv wrote:
msaari wrote:
Yeah, there are folks in Finland who have been playing Eclipse for more than a year now.


So it's not 30 minutes per player as stated on the box!



Or it's a /very/ large game...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Antti Autio
Finland
Helsinki
flag msg tools
badge
Gina, Escher gang leader (Necromunda). Don't mess with her or she'll kick your ass.. actually, she's gonna do it anyway!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
galfridus wrote:
zorro_jv wrote:
msaari wrote:
Yeah, there are folks in Finland who have been playing Eclipse for more than a year now.


So it's not 30 minutes per player as stated on the box!



Or it's a /very/ large game...

Yeah, it's a custom four-player game, using 335 hand-built prototype sets. The players started in the corners of a football field. Only one player has connected to the Galactic Centre so far and none of the players have even connected their empires yet!
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Finland
20100 Turku
flag msg tools
All reality is a game. Physics at its most fundamental, the very fabric of our universe, results directly from the interaction of certain fairly simple rules, and chance; the same description may be applied to the best, most elegant and both intellec
badge
and aesthetically satisfying games. By being unknowable, by resulting from events which, at the sub-atomic level, cannot be fully predicted, the future remains malleable, and retains the possibility of change, the hope of coming to prevail; victory.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
aautio wrote:
galfridus wrote:
zorro_jv wrote:
msaari wrote:
Yeah, there are folks in Finland who have been playing Eclipse for more than a year now.


So it's not 30 minutes per player as stated on the box!



Or it's a /very/ large game...

Yeah, it's a custom four-player game, using 335 hand-built prototype sets. The players started in the corners of a football field. Only one player has connected to the Galactic Centre so far and none of the players have even connected their empires yet!


Seriously, with Eclipse heading into the top 10 of the rankings, we should be seeing something GIANT!

E.g.
Games with GIANT versions
BGG Picture Museum Photo Album #3: Playing Games on Super-Sized Boards
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
stephen biggs
England
flag msg tools
tranenturm wrote:

Orion Hegemony:
Action 2: Build a second Cruiser
Action 3: optional upgrade the nuclear source to a hull
Action 3 or 4: move in and kick but

1 Orion cruiser with even a normal hull upgrade has better than 80% chance to defeat ana ancient ship:
Correction I did the maths last night, 75.75%, but my 80% guess was close
So Orion doesn't need to waste half an action building a cruiser on turn-1.
Not building lets them either explore a 2nd hex or research something (e.g improved hull.)
As a general rule, unless I need a ship for combat this turn I'd delay building till I have enough ore to build the 2-limit.

tranenturm wrote:

Eridani Empire:
Action 2: Build cruiser (using 3 points of money for the fifth resource)
Action 3: Upgrade ships (there are multiple configurations possible, I like adding a hull to the interceptor and gauss shields to the cruiser)
Action 4: Optional 2nd upgrade
Action 4 or 5: Move in


Eridani can use that 26 money for any of several strategies. but with 2 less influence discs. they need to be careful where they use it.
Building a single cruiser turn-1 wastes at least half an action.
And one cruiser is no good if you get unlucky & find a pair of ancient ships.
If Eridani can research improved hull, they should wait till turn-2 then build a dreadnought & use it to take the GCDS. That's a lot more valuable than an ancient ship.
A note on action-3 upgrade {interceptor hull+1, cruiser shield-1}
that gives a 21% chance of a total loss against 1 ancient ship. and about 49% chance of loosing atleast one ship.
conversly a single cruiser with upgrade {shield-1, fusion gun} and without the interceptor, has an 83% chance to win with no loss V's 1 ancient. So leave the eridani interceptor at home.

The other races should probably avoid combat turn-1, unless they discover +6 ore.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.