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Subject: The trouble is... rss

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Mauricio de Souza Fonseca
Brazil
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This is deservfedly high rated game, but it has a boig problem in my opinion: around mid-game, it's usually plain clear who is gonna win.
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Billy McBoatface
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Lexington
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Funny, I have the opposite feeling. Most of the games I'm in, there are several people doing well, and any of them could win with the right combination of timing and luck.
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Dion Baxter
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I always lurk just behind the leader. Maintaining second place is tricky, but usually successful.
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Eric Brosius
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My favorite 18xx game for six players is two games of 1846 with three players each.
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This is true if one player is a lot more skillful than the others.

I have played many games that came down to a difference of a few dollars.
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Mark Schlatter
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msouzafon wrote:
This is deservfedly high rated game, but it has a boig problem in my opinion: around mid-game, it's usually plain clear who is gonna win.


In most of my games, around mid-game, no one even has capacity for 17 cities with most players needing to get two more plants. The question of which plants and the timing of when to buy them is a critical factor in who wins.
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Fraser
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In our groups it would be rare for there to be a clear winner mid game, in fact it is quite often not clear until the game is finished and the money counted for the tie breaker that we can determine who the leader was!
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MURRUMBEENA
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Karlsen wrote:
In our groups it would be rare for there to be a clear winner mid game, in fact it is quite often not clear until the game is finished and the money counted for the tie breaker that we can determine who the leader was!

As often as not, it's Karlsen, but I digress..
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Mauricio de Souza Fonseca
Brazil
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I think it's not right the first ti-ebrekaer be money, and only after that being number of cities. For me, number of cities should come first as a tie-breaker.
 
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Randall Bart
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msouzafon wrote:
I think it's not right the first ti-ebrekaer be money, and only after that being number of cities. For me, number of cities should come first as a tie-breaker.

Friedemann could have done it that way but he didn't. It never helps you to have cities you don't power.
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Eric Brosius
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My favorite 18xx game for six players is two games of 1846 with three players each.
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At the World Boardgaming Championships, where all ties must be broken in the finals, the first tie-breaker is most money, the second is most cities connected, and the last tie-breaker is "highest-numbered power plan owned."
 
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The other Euro guy
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I would probably pick this game above all others in my collection as the one in which it is hardest to call the winner in mid-game.
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Josh
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In our games I start to get cocky at midgame, sure I'm going to win, only to get shut out of a critical resource in the last turn due to lousy positioning in turn order, finally powering something like eleven cities. Then I pout and break stuff.
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Mark Schlatter
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msouzafon wrote:
I think it's not right the first ti-ebrekaer be money, and only after that being number of cities. For me, number of cities should come first as a tie-breaker.


But then the t-shirt would be wrong!

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Randall Bart
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mschlat wrote:
But then the t-shirt would be wrong!

The shirt says "a tiebreaker", not "the first tiebreaker".
 
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Mark Schlatter
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Barticus88 wrote:
mschlat wrote:
But then the t-shirt would be wrong!

The shirt says "a tiebreaker", not "the first tiebreaker".


Yeah, I messed up.... (Still love the shirt.)
 
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Pieter
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Eric Brosius wrote:
This is true if one player is a lot more skillful than the others.

In that case, there is no need to call the winner as late as the mid-game.

When I play the game, usually the penultimate round there are at least two possible contenders for first place. And it comes down to the tie-breaker in the end.
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Fraser
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msouzafon wrote:
I think it's not right the first ti-ebrekaer be money, and only after that being number of cities. For me, number of cities should come first as a tie-breaker.

Number of cities doesn't come in to it as a tie-breaker at all.

The winner is the most powered cities, as opposed to the number of cities in your network.

If there is a tie for this (which there often is) then it is the most money (which in the vast majority of cases will settle it).
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mumu shanshi
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Karlsen wrote:
Number of cities doesn't come in to it as a tie-breaker at all.

The winner is the most powered cities, as opposed to the number of cities in your network.
If there is a tie for this (which there often is) then it is the most money (which in the vast majority of cases will settle it).

Lol. shake
And if there is a tie in the amount of money??
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Ax Bits
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mumushanshi wrote:
Karlsen wrote:
Number of cities doesn't come in to it as a tie-breaker at all.

The winner is the most powered cities, as opposed to the number of cities in your network.
If there is a tie for this (which there often is) then it is the most money (which in the vast majority of cases will settle it).

Lol. shake
And if there is a tie in the amount of money??


The next tie-breaker is connected cities.
 
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Fraser
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Back in the days when there were less maps we played every map back to back
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And if you run out of tie-breakers in the rules "Just play better next time" cool
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Eric Brosius
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We just played a game today in which halfway through the power plant auction on the last turn, 3 different people could have won, depending on the order in which the plants were drawn from the power plant deck.
 
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Bob Melkus
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We played quite a few games where it came down to math. Two or more players can win depending on who gets the best plant in the last round, but still has enough money to connect to more cities. Once I lost a game because I overbid the power plant by 1 electro, and I was exactly one electro short on building the 18th city that I needed for the win in that particular game.

I agree with the others, only if one player is much more experienced can you have a clear winner mid-game, and in that case you have a clear winner before you even start playing.
 
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Kevin Peters Unrau
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Barticus88 wrote:
msouzafon wrote:
I think it's not right the first ti-ebrekaer be money, and only after that being number of cities. For me, number of cities should come first as a tie-breaker.

Friedemann could have done it that way but he didn't. It never helps you to have cities you don't power.


Not only that but it could lead to some weird game play when it comes to theme.

If two or more players are tied for most cities powerable, the player who goes last in the build phase could spend all their money to get to 17 cities for an automatic win (other players have no chance to respond). So the player who goes first in the build order has to preempt that by building out first. That means that it becomes more important to build cities than power them. The winning strategy then becomes "buy mediocre plants that keep you in the mid-game but have no end-game potential and use the money you save to build out to 17 cities to end the game whenever you can." Very few games would actually get to the point of powering 17 or more cities.

When cash is the first tie-breaker someone wanting to build to 17 cities early has to have a clear powering advantage or they take themselves out of the game. I think this works better with the theme.
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mumu shanshi
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Barticus88 wrote:
It never helps you to have cities you don't power.

Well... never say never. There are possible corner cases. Specifically,
if by building one or more cities over your capacity, you force your competitors to pay [more than what you paid for those extra cities] more to build the cities they need - or even be unable to build up to capacity - it is a net gain.
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