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Hannibal: Rome vs. Carthage» Forums » Rules

Subject: Maximum size of besieging force? rss

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Oliver Paul
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Hey, love the game, but I still have some questions after 6 plays.

I played a game last night where I played Carthage, and my opponent used a Campaign card to bring a general and 10 CUs to siege Carthage. He defeated Hanno (who was positioned there). Hanno retreated to the next space, leaving the roman General on Carthage.

On his next turn, instead of starting the siege, he used another Campaign card to bring another general and 10 CUs to Carthage, bringing the total to 20 units.

My question is, since activated generals can only take 10 CUs with them, I could only assault his 20 CU force with a maximum of 10 CUs. Is this a legal strategy? Is there a limit to the number of CUs allowed on a space?

Thx in advance.
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Iain K
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Quote:
Is this a legal strategy?


Yes, legal and very astute.

Quote:
Is there a limit to the number of CUs allowed on a space?


As I recall, No.

But the strategy is not bulletproof from the sense that he can only be in so many places at once. And if you attack him with Hannibal and 10CUs, and you control all the provinces of Africa, you both will have 20 battle cards (the max).

Good luck, med venlig hilsen!
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Andy Latto
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murksofus wrote:
Hey, love the game, but I still have some questions after 6 plays.

I played a game last night where I played Carthage, and my opponent used a Campaign card to bring a general and 10 CUs to siege Carthage. He defeated Hanno (who was positioned there). Hanno retreated to the next space, leaving the roman General on Carthage.

On his next turn, instead of starting the siege, he used another Campaign card to bring another general and 10 CUs to Carthage, bringing the total to 20 units.

Not only is this legal, but he could have moved another general and 10 CU to Carthage and started the siege on the same card play. You don't need to start in the city to make a siege roll; you just need to end in the city with 3 or more CU without fighting a battle first.
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Oliver Paul
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Yeah. The problem was, he had been using the previous rounds to convert eastern and western numidia, Hannibal was dead, so there was really nothing it could do.

Since Carthage recieves less reinforcements each turn, if it does bad early, or if it loses Hannibal, I don't really know how you can win against a halfway decent player.

Edit: I'm really having a hard time formulating a decent strategy with Carthage. Moving Hannibal into Italy seems the thematic option, however he gets at most 1 reinforcement per turn, so he won't last very long on the offensive. I'd love some help with this one.
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Iain K
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Then you had already lost and the 20 CU siege was simply hastening the end.

Find a copy of the Avalon Hill magazine volume 31-3 It has excellent strategy articles for both players. And take heart, the Carthaginian side is the more difficult to play. The key, is always to control more provinces than Rome and bleed them dry. Use the strategy cards to best advantage as well - they on the balance favor the Carthaginian player.

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Oliver Paul
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citizen k wrote:
The key, is always to control more provinces than Rome and bleed them dry. Use the strategy cards to best advantage as well - they on the balance favor the Carthaginian player.


Ok... valid strategy. What province/s would you recommend? Even with taking Gallia Cisalpania on the first cardplay, that only brings Carthage to even (9 of 18 provinces). How would you recommend I proceed?
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Iain K
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By the end of game turn 1 you should control both Galia Cisapline and Idubeda in Spain. Then Hannibal enters northern Italy and begins converting provinces.

If possible play cards to turn Syracuse and cause revolts in Roman provinces. If you have a card that causes a revolt in Sardina or Sicily ... MAKE THE ROMAN GO FIRST FOR THE TURN, play the revolt card last, and then next turn go first, play 3 ops and take the revolted province.

In fact, generally, Carthagian players should choose to go last.

And remember, if your opponent loses a province, they lose 2 PC ie 9-9 becomes 8-10 (delta 2) and 8-10 becomes 7-11 ... delta 4. Things snowball *quickly*. The game is all about controlling provinces.

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Oliver Paul
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Basically all games I've played as Carthage, I've controlled Galia Cisalpane and Idubeda in turn 1. Turn 2 I march Hannibal over the alps, losing 1-3 troops in the process, then maybe beating a Roman general.

However, Rome has 2 8 CU generals at the start of the game, so even if I beat one, I usually don't beat the other, and either lose Hannibal early (turn 2-3) or have Hannibal in Northern Italy with very few CUs, and no way to get more. He gets one per turn, and one per 3 ops card. That just isn't enough to combat 2-3 fully stocked roman generals.
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Iain K
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Make sure to re-read the combat rules.

Hannibal with Galia Cisaplina controlled and 7 CUs draws 12 battle cards. Only Marcellus can bring a force against him in the early game with equal BCs. If he does, he'll often have to be moving with the other consul as each needs 5 CUs ... if so, roll for leadership changes and Marcellus could end up watching the other guy lose the battle.

Remember that Rome NEVER gets more than 2 BCs for control of Italian provinces (except when fighting in Latinum). Remember Hannibal's special ability and his ability to become the attacker on a roll of 1-4. Remember he can evade combat all together on a roll of 1-4 ... in fact if he chooses to evade combat or quit a battle, there are few Roman generals who can pursue him successfully. Learn when to quite battles. If the Roman attacks and you don't want to fight, quit immediately.

Make no mistake, Carthaginian play tolerates few mistakes and it requires a solid understanding of the rules. I recommend the General magazine for strategy articles and a good play-by-play report with commentray. "Watch " good players and the epiphanies will come.

Hannibal is a cobra and Rome has only two mongooses.


Oh and remember you do not have to take a province, sometimes it is enough to deprive your opponent of its control. Isolate his PC, place you PC in hopeless places where they will be isolated ... but where they keep your opponent from having the majority necessary to control the province themselves.

Most importantly, give the rules another read and see the implications of their interplay.

Cheers!

PS - look at the Hannibal entry on grognards.com for links to several strategy articles and discussions: http://grognard.com/titleh.html
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Andy Latto
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murksofus wrote:
Basically all games I've played as Carthage, I've controlled Galia Cisalpane and Idubeda in turn 1. Turn 2 I march Hannibal over the alps, losing 1-3 troops in the process, then maybe beating a Roman general.

However, Rome has 2 8 CU generals at the start of the game, so even if I beat one, I usually don't beat the other, and either lose Hannibal early (turn 2-3) or have Hannibal in Northern Italy with very few CUs, and no way to get more. He gets one per turn, and one per 3 ops card. That just isn't enough to combat 2-3 fully stocked roman generals.


If fighting battles with Hannibal is going to kill Hannibal, don't fight. Your goal is to force Rome to divert some of its forces, so you're not fighting all of Rome's troops, and the way to do that is to start another front in the war, two if possible.

Possible other fronts are Corsica/Sardinia, Sicily, Syracuse, and Southern Italy. While if you have to risk it, Mago can sail to Sicily or Corsica with only a 1 in 6 chance of being sunk, you can generally get better odds by using event cards. Useful event cards include revolts, Diplomacy, Mutin's Numidians, Carthaginian Naval Victory, Philip, and Adriatic Pirates. If you don't get any of these, you can either take the 1 in 6 gamble, or just wait until the next turn. Or you can send Gisgo and a couple of CU into Etruria. Once Rome has to divide his forces, only one of his forces is led by the proconsul (usually the force in the north dealing with Hannibal, once Rome has a good proconsul), and the other has to deal with whichever Consul Rome elected, and difficulty in dropping off troops to convert areas rapidly because of the 5 CU minimum.

But the best way to see how these strategies work is to see them in operation. If you'd like to play Rome against an experienced Hannibal, geek mail me and we can work out a time to play on wargameroom.
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Oliver Paul
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Thanks guys, much appreciated. I'll have some things to think about when I next play.
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