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Conflict of Heroes: Awakening the Bear! – Russia 1941-42» Forums » Rules

Subject: CAP's rss

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Jon Torgoose
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Just a quick question, when using a card that gives extra CAP's, can the newly acquired CAP's exceed the CAP limit from the scenario and losses of units?

Example - Firefight two has the russians starting on 6 (i think) CAP's. The russians have lost two units (and are now on 4 CAP's/turn) and play the +1D6 CAP's card after 3 CAP's have been used.....

The CAP's will be for one turn only but can they raise the CAP level higher than 4 if the roll is high enough or is the limit 4?

I thought the limit of 4 made sense but my friend thought that the card could allow his CAP's to go above the normal limit.
 
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Chuck Meeks
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I don't have the rule book in front of me but I have always played that you get whatever you rolled. In my mind it would represent that side having at that moment in time very good command and control, a very well thought out battleplan and effective leadership.

Edit: I went and downloaded the Price of Honor rulebook and it somewhat explains the cards. I am 99% sure that you get them all. Here is what it says next to one of the +1D6 CAP cards:

+1D6 CAPs Card #8
As an action, an activated unit or
group may roll 1D6 for additional
CAPs. Add the die result to the CAP
trac. These CAPs may be spent by
other units.


Nothing at all about only keeping the amount up to your CAP limit.
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uwe eickert
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Chuck is correct.
Ex: You start the game with 6 CAPs. Currently you have 5 CAPs left. You play the '+1D6 CAPs' card and roll a 4. You then move the CAPs marker to 9 CAPs.
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Jon Torgoose
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Thanks for the quick replies!

Im really getting into CoH and im thinking of buying price of honour very soon. I love the very short set up time and easy rules to learn - great game series Uwe!

Jon
 
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uwe eickert
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Thanks. Michal Ozon is the campaign designer of Price of Honour. I think that it includes some of the best firefights of the series so far and highly recommend it.
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Eric Tolentino
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uweeickert wrote:
Chuck is correct.
Ex: You start the game with 6 CAPs. Currently you have 5 CAPs left. You play the '+1D6 CAPs' card and roll a 4. You then move the CAPs marker to 9 CAPs.


Uwe,

The question about the card increasing CAPs occurred during a game this evening. By default my friend and I followed the letter of the rule regarding this card although the die resulted in a number of German CAPs greater than the current turn's initial German CAPs (3) which were reduced from 6 (game start) after 3 German casualties by turn 2.
Uwe, what is the rationale for the card increasing a side's CAP to a level greater than the number of CAPs at the start of turn 1 and also to a level higher than the current turn's CAPs after casualties. According to the rules, if my memory serves, CAPs represent leadership, command and control, logistics and supplies, etc. For a card to increase the CAPs beyond what the starting force had in the beginning, as well as, after casualties (killed or injured leaders, spent munitions, supplies, etc.), seems counterintuitive.
Also happy to make your acquaintance at WBC 2014's Conflict of Heroes tournament and thanks for the beverage.

Thanks, Fr. E.T.
 
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StevenE Smooth Sailing...
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ETPxPa1adin wrote:

Uwe, what is the rationale for the card increasing a side's CAP to a level greater than the number of CAPs at the start of turn 1 and also to a level higher than the current turn's CAPs after casualties. According to the rules, if my memory serves, CAPs represent leadership, command and control, logistics and supplies, etc. For a card to increase the CAPs beyond what the starting force had in the beginning, as well as, after casualties (killed or injured leaders, spent munitions, supplies, etc.), seems counterintuitive.


Think of the CAP overage as a really inspiring pep talk by the senior officer or a vicious toungue lashing by the ranking NCO.
 
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Armin H
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The only problem I have with this ruling is what happens if you then lose a unit. Imagine you start with 6 CAP, have 5 remaining. Roll a 1, so you are back to 6. Then you lose a unit, so you are again down to 5, all fine, all covered by the rules.

But: If you roll a 5, you are at 10, 4 points above your initial value. Then you lose a unit. What happens?
a) you stay at 10, since that is basically what the rules are written like
b) you go to 9 (common sense ruling)
c) something else
 
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Lewis Karl
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You have a CAP track. Lost units are put on the lowest available space on the CAP track and deny you one CAP. Because the die roll merely increases the top limit on the CAP track, the available CAPs are those spaces on the track that are empty from the upper limit to the most recent killed unit.

Or something like that. Its explained in the rules.

So...

Quote:
But: If you roll a 5, you are at 10, 4 points above your initial value. Then you lose a unit. What happens?


You place the killed unit on the lowest CAP track space (e.g., space #0). Because the CAP marker is now on 10, you have only 9 CAPs left.

If you lose another unit, it is placed on CAP track space #1 and you have only 8 CAPs left.

 
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Chris in Kansai
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7.4.2 CAP Track Adjustments
Destroyed units are removed from the Firefight and are placed on its commanding player’s CAPs Track. The first destroyed unit is placed on the starting CAP number specified in the Firefight, the second destroyed unit on the next CAP number lower, and so on. At the beginning of each round, the CAPs Track Marker is reset to its beginning value minus one for each lost unit.
Ex: The German player begins a Firefight with 9CAPs and loses 2 units in round one. The first unit is placed on the '9' space, the second on the '8' space. He begins round two with only 7CAPs at his disposal. The 7CAPs could decrease in future rounds, if the Germans lose more units.
If the CAP Track Marker is on the space where a destroyed unit must be placed, the CAP level is immediately reduced by one and the player loses the use of this CAP.

The rules are as above, so you'd place destroyed units on the 6 space, then 5 and so on and skip any space with units on it when counting down from 10.

Lewis Karl's suggestion works too - you just have to remember the firefight caps value when resetting.
 
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Armin H
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Chrysm wrote:
If the CAP Track Marker is on the space where a destroyed unit must be placed, the CAP level is immediately reduced by one and the player loses the use of this CAP.

The rules are as above, so you'd place destroyed units on the 6 space, then 5 and so on and skip any space with units on it when counting down from 10.

Lewis Karl's suggestion works too - you just have to remember the firefight caps value when resetting.


Well that's exactly the problem, right?

The rules just say “…is on the space where a destroyed unit must be placed,…” that means strictly speaking if you are (by card play as discussed above) at CAP 10 and place the unit at space number 5, nothing happens.

Your interpretation however, which IMO would have had to be phrased like “If the CAP Track Marker is on a space where a destroyed unit has been placed, the CAP level is immediately reduced by one and the player loses the use of this CAP.” This interpretation means, depending on the number of killed units on the track you may not gain any points (i.e. if you are at the current maximum CAP and there are as many killed units as you happened to roll additional CAP).
 
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Chris in Kansai
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I don't see any problem. You can never place your CAP track marker on a space with a unit on it, so even if the marker is at 10, placing a unit on space number 5 deprives you of a CAP.

You count the CAPs off as you use them, so if the marker was on 7 and you had dead units on spaces 6 and 5, using one CAP would mean moving your marker to 4.

Also, the card says:

Roll 1D6 for additional CAPs and add
them to the CAP track. These CAPs
are added one time only and may
temporarily push the CAP total over
the firefight’s starting CAP number.

I take this to mean that you add usable CAPs, so if the counter was on 4 with dead units at 5 and 6, rolling a 1 would mean moving the counter to 7.

Same question on this thread.
 
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A L D A R O N
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spacefox wrote:
The rules just say “…is on the space where a destroyed unit must be placed,…” that means strictly speaking if you are (by card play as discussed above) at CAP 10 and place the unit at space number 5, nothing happens.

Nothing happens to the location of the CAP marker, or your available CAP for now. But at the start of the next Round, you'll find your starting from one CAP less. That's all.
 
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Armin H
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Chrysm wrote:

Same question on this thread.


Thanks for pointing that out. In that other thread Lewis Karl wrote something exactly to my point. Don't get me wrong I'm not talking about how it makes sense to be played, but about what the rules say and whether they could be clarified.
 
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Lewis Karl
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spacefox wrote:
Chrysm wrote:

Same question on this thread.


Thanks for pointing that out. In that other thread Lewis Karl wrote something exactly to my point. Don't get me wrong I'm not talking about how it makes sense to be played, but about what the rules say and whether they could be clarified.


And thank you for finding that old thread. Indeed what I mentioned above was a house rule I use, simply because its easier. That is, I place the killed unit on the lowest space and the CAP is lost immediately rather than on the next turn. However, by the rules, as pointed out above, you are supposed to place the unit on the highest space, and you only lose the CAP if you haven't used that CAP point yet.

But the idea is the same. The roll gives you extra CAPs for the turn, but you still subtract out the kills from previous rounds and if you use my method, the kills from the current round.

I hope that makes sense.

I know Uwe posted a response to a similar question at one point in time.
 
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Lewis Karl
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Okay, here is a post where this is discussed in detail on the SoS forum.

[url]https://boardgamegeek.com/article/3742001#3742001
[/url]

To summarize, the rule was changed way back when, to place the killed unit on the top-most available spot (your max or less), so there is the potential for you to immediately lose one CAP.

My interpretation: When using the card to temporarily increase your CAPS (e.g., by a roll of 3), you always get those additional CAPS regardless of how many kills there are. You just push the marker up until you have added that many free spaces (3 new free spaces).

If you then lose another unit before using one of those new CAPs, you lose that cap, because you place the killed unit at the new temporary max spot.

When the round ends, move all the killed units down to the real maximum.

Again, this is my interpretation.

I think you can simplify this, by always pushing the killed units down to the bottom of the track when each round ends. Thus you are always at your max at the beginning of the round, but may have a higher minimum. When a unit is killed in the new round, you again place it at the max spot (it will then be pushed down again at the start of the next round).
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Armin H
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pisqueeter wrote:


The clarifications found there are exactly what I was looking for. Thanks a lot! :)

I as the game owner ruled like that in a recent game. I was just wondering, what the official take was on that. Odd that this wording didn't make it into the 2nd edition of AotB...

 
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