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Thunderstone: Doomgate Legion» Forums » Rules

Subject: Slynn Bowman - How are monster "types" defined? rss

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Fractal Energy
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E.g. if I reveal an Orc * Humanoid, can I use the bonus attack against a Doppelganger * Humanoid? As in, are they both considered the same type for both being Humanoids?
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Unfortunately, Orc*Humanoid and Doppelganger*Humanoid are two different types of Monsters. An Orc in your hand does not give the Slynn additional Attack against a Doppelganger because the Monster types do not match each other exactly.

On the other hand, the Trophy from the Standard Bearer (Orc*Humanoid) will contribute Attack +1 against all Humanoids, including Doppelgangers.
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Fractal Energy
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Okay, this was my intuition but a friend made a case for the alternative. Thank you for the clarification!
 
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Russell InGA
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So the definition of same type is: The text (ALL OF IT!) on each card in the Monster Type Field exactly matches the text on the other card.
 
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David
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We recently encountered the same question and I'd like to dispute this "ruling".

To me it makes no sense, especially when considering cards like Warhammer:

Warhammer wrote:
Clerics gain an additional ATTACK +3 against Doomknights and Undead


A) By the above logic Warhammer would only apply to pure Clerics. Blind and Chalice could not use that since they are hybrid types.
B) Also there would be NO monsters that fit those criteria. "Doomknights" are actually "Doomknight * Humanoid" and there are multiple monster types with "Undead" in it but none of them are pure "Undead"
C) Consider the Thyrian's Food ability. Even when you disregard the "Item" part of all types this logic would make this ability only work with Iron Rations and Feast. Glowberries and Goodberries have Light and Magic types too.
D) Or monsters that kill Fighters. Is my Slynn Bowman immune to that trait because he's a "Fighter * Archer"?

and so on. The game is full of these combinations. If you insist that a card's type is only exactly what is printed in its entirety you basically cut out about half the combos in the game.
 
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Rauli Kettunen
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Kempeth wrote:
We recently encountered the same question and I'd like to dispute this "ruling".

To me it makes no sense, especially when considering cards like Warhammer:

Warhammer wrote:
Clerics gain an additional ATTACK +3 against Doomknights and Undead


A) By the above logic Warhammer would only apply to pure Clerics. Blind and Chalice could not use that since they are hybrid types.
B) Also there would be NO monsters that fit those criteria. "Doomknights" are actually "Doomknight * Humanoid" and there are multiple monster types with "Undead" in it but none of them are pure "Undead"
C) Consider the Thyrian's Food ability. Even when you disregard the "Item" part of all types this logic would make this ability only work with Iron Rations and Feast. Glowberries and Goodberries have Light and Magic types too.
D) Or monsters that kill Fighters. Is my Slynn Bowman immune to that trait because he's a "Fighter * Archer"?

and so on. The game is full of these combinations. If you insist that a card's type is only exactly what is printed in its entirety you basically cut out about half the combos in the game.


Here's the thing, only Slynn uses the added qualifier "monster type" to trigger the additional bonus. And monster type is the center line stuff for a monster. Compare to one of the monsters in the Orc - Humanoid group, which has a trophy "+1 Attack against Humanoids". Again, different from Slynn, no "monster type" qualifier, just need to look for Humanoids.

Warhammer? No limiting clause of any kind, as long as hero has Cleric as one their Classes, they qualify for its potential. Similarly, the bonus itself doesn't put additional limitation, so it'll work against Doomknight - Humanoid as well as Guardian - Doomknight, as long as Doomknight is one of the types listed. Ditto for Undead of all kinds (Doom, Spirit, Lich, etc.)

Same goes for the other examples you listed. None of those use an additional qualifier like the Slynn does.
 
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David
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Dam the Man wrote:
Kempeth wrote:
We recently encountered the same question and I'd like to dispute this "ruling".

To me it makes no sense, especially when considering cards like Warhammer:

Warhammer wrote:
Clerics gain an additional ATTACK +3 against Doomknights and Undead


A) By the above logic Warhammer would only apply to pure Clerics. Blind and Chalice could not use that since they are hybrid types.
B) Also there would be NO monsters that fit those criteria. "Doomknights" are actually "Doomknight * Humanoid" and there are multiple monster types with "Undead" in it but none of them are pure "Undead"
C) Consider the Thyrian's Food ability. Even when you disregard the "Item" part of all types this logic would make this ability only work with Iron Rations and Feast. Glowberries and Goodberries have Light and Magic types too.
D) Or monsters that kill Fighters. Is my Slynn Bowman immune to that trait because he's a "Fighter * Archer"?

and so on. The game is full of these combinations. If you insist that a card's type is only exactly what is printed in its entirety you basically cut out about half the combos in the game.


Here's the thing, only Slynn uses the added qualifier "monster type" to trigger the additional bonus. And monster type is the center line stuff for a monster. Compare to one of the monsters in the Orc - Humanoid group, which has a trophy "+1 Attack against Humanoids". Again, different from Slynn, no "monster type" qualifier, just need to look for Humanoids.

Warhammer? No limiting clause of any kind, as long as hero has Cleric as one their Classes, they qualify for its potential. Similarly, the bonus itself doesn't put additional limitation, so it'll work against Doomknight - Humanoid as well as Guardian - Doomknight, as long as Doomknight is one of the types listed. Ditto for Undead of all kinds (Doom, Spirit, Lich, etc.)

Same goes for the other examples you listed. None of those use an additional qualifier like the Slynn does.


I'll argue that "monster type" is not an additional qualifier but simply a variable. The effect is not tied to a particular type (such as Doomknight, Magic or Food) but to whatever type(s) you reveal. How would you phrase that otherwise?
 
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Rauli Kettunen
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Well, both Slynn and the rulebook have the same term, "monster type" in them. That's generally something you follow when the term is repeated in two spots like that.

Had a game recently that featured Doppelganger - Humanoid, Dragon - Humanoid and Lizardfolk - Humanoid. To allow one Slynn to reveal any monster and get the bonus against any monster in the dungeon (since they are all X - Humanoid if using your "half is enough" approach), that's would've been way too good.

Closest comparison might be the Gohlen, who gets a bonus (at lvl 1 and 2) if you reveal a monster in hand, any monster will do.
 
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