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Subject: What's the meaning of the grey worlds? rss

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Johan Haglert
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Circle got grey background = ?

Thanks.
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Chris Ferejohn
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Pitying fools as hard as I can...
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They don't produce anything.
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Eric Brosius
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My favorite 18xx game for six players is two games of 1846 with three players each.
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cferejohn wrote:
They don't produce anything.


In other words, they never have a card placed on them face down to represent a good.
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Johan Haglert
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So what about White? Wind-fall?

Was a while since I played so I looked in the rule book and saw the pink ones instead and thought that maybe there was no grey worlds (Surely there are white backgrounds to? Are that only for wind-fall worlds then? There are none with just white background which doesn't produce anything?)

Pink / Rebel

... that reminded me that I've thought about that to back when I tested and I think I had noticed they seemed to be on rebel cards.

Since then (today) I've glanced at the rules of the expansions though and noticed that they seem to be used for Rebel vs Imperium stuff in there. So not of any importance as of now.

Trade & Produce on wind-fall worlds

I also read through the short player guides and noticed that you only got more paid for gods (and always got to sell one?) when using trade. That explains why I never felt like I got the correct amount of cards in Keldon (and probably always placed one consume/trade card to much), did wind-fall worlds really produced when you picked produce yourself to? I think I had missed that then to

(I think I looked through the three videos explaining the game instead of reading the text. Don't remember. Only tried Keldon (but for some stupid reason bought the game before.))

Short off-topic rant which I should probably had made another thread for (I actually did once but lost the post/tab somehow.)
... partly because of my own faults and limits?


I've thought the game was too short with too little success in planning, but then because of my misunderstandings / lack of knowledge I probably fell short of some cards / production of cards (all eleven games against the AI has been losses to =P), I guess this makes say yellow producing cards more viable since you can sell them easily for more cards.

I would probably still feel the game is a little to short and not really get what the hype is about (glanced over all the expansions and they obviously had looooads of more options to get point and possibility for various strategies and way to reach the end, but in the end you win just as fast? (Or maybe not since some counted as VPs but isn't VPs so you won't run out of VPs by placing those cards (however you will still end up with a big enough tableau but maybe at a higher cost?))

Don't really know what I expected from a card game though. Obviously cards will be random and you'd have to do the best out of the situation (which shouldn't be impossible since you'll be spending so many cards and keep so few anyway.)

Oh well.

Is there enough game in RFTG? Do you think it's enough and enough time-wise?

Do you all think it's _GREAT_?

Any reason to play Thunderstone (WTF?)

(Thunderstone and such look interesting to but I've watched the epic Thunderstone video but then it seems like you pick parameters which make it more or less likely to be a success in the end (probably ok but how you get there may be slightly random) or with the normal variant got no control about how the dungeon developers which make that one random and the end game/result completely random because of varying difficulty in each game - I may be wrong.))

Even shorter..

(Sorry for the rant (based on old feelings/impressions) - I may like it more when I know the rules better or play with people and care about what they do instead of AIs those tableau I don't care about or look at. Or maybe I'm just inferior for not getting the game =P, longer and more please! ;D)
 
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Brandon M
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Windfall worlds start with a good on them, but they don't produce goods on themselves. To produce on a windfall world you need a produce power that lets you produce on a windfall world; this can come from cards in your tableau or by selecting the produce action.

You should probably go back and re-read the whole rule book. The questions you're asking are pretty fundamental questions, and who knows what you don't even know to ask about.

Quote:
Is there enough game in RFTG? Do you think it's enough and enough time-wise?

Do you all think it's _GREAT_?


Yes, yes, yes.
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D S
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I'm no expert but I *love* RftG. I like Thunderstone too, more than Dominion, but they are apples and oranges. RftG is a deep game, very, very replayable. Much more game in this little box than in Thunderstone, and I'm a fan of both.

If you count the times I've played against the computer AI in the software version, I've played it many, many more times than any game in my collection, and no two games ever go the same way.

If you think it's too random, you're doing it wrong; if you lose sometimes, that's normal. At least for me. Keep at it, and god bless you if you have others who will play it with you.

The key is, remember it's a *race*. You are not trying to build the perfect tableau. Every game is a sprint, and you will often need to shift strategies during a game and you will always need to pay attention to what your opponents are doing.

/counterrant
 
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Serge Levert
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aliquis wrote:
So what about White? Wind-fall?
[...]
(Surely there are white backgrounds to? Are that only for wind-fall worlds then? There are none with just white background which doesn't produce anything?)

Right, all white worlds are windfalls, none are barren.

aliquis wrote:
Pink / Rebel
[...]
Since then (today) I've glanced at the rules of the expansions though and noticed that they seem to be used for Rebel vs Imperium stuff in there. So not of any importance as of now.

The Rebel distinction is actually of import in the base game, on 1 card:


aliquis wrote:
Trade & Produce on wind-fall worlds

I also read through the short player guides and noticed that you only got more paid for gods (and always got to sell one?) when using trade.

Right, if you select the Trade role, you must sell exactly one good.

aliquis wrote:
did wind-fall worlds really produced when you picked produce yourself to?

The bonus for those who select the Produce action is to produce on *one* windfall world.

aliquis wrote:
I would probably still feel the game is a little to short

The game does feel too short when first learning it, since we are playing very suboptimally and the game ends while we barely have our plans set up. As you get more efficient, you eventually realize that the game ends exactly at the right time. The designer timed it that way, to end the game around when the winner simply would runaway and further extend his lead anyway.

aliquis wrote:
but in the end you win just as fast? (Or maybe not since some counted as VPs but isn't VPs so you won't run out of VPs by placing those cards (however you will still end up with a big enough tableau but maybe at a higher cost?))

It sounds like you might be doing something wrong with the VP chip pool. Note that building a card (putting it into your tableau) does not give you VP chips. It will give you points as indicated on the card hex at the end of the game. You acquire VP chips solely through phase IV powers.

aliquis wrote:
Do you all think it's _GREAT_?

Yes. There is still no game that comes close for me, unfortunately.

aliquis wrote:
Any reason to play Thunderstone (WTF?)

Completely different style of game, you may or may not like it better than RftG. Only real similarity is they are both played with cards. I enjoyed TS for ~80 plays (about how long i enjoyed Dominion). I prefer TS over Dominion. For replayability comparison, i've played RftG more than 1500 times.

aliquis wrote:
pick parameters which make it more or less likely to be a success in the end (probably ok but how you get there may be slightly random) or with the normal variant got no control about how the dungeon developers which make that one random and the end game/result completely random because of varying difficulty in each game - I may be wrong.))

Card games tend to be about *managing* luck. The player who does that best will win much more than his fair share. So they are definitely skill games, but with obfuscation: randomness.
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Johan Haglert
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mugs wrote:
Windfall worlds start with a good on them, but they don't produce goods on themselves. To produce on a windfall world you need a produce power that lets you produce on a windfall world; this can come from cards in your tableau or by selecting the produce action.

You should probably go back and re-read the whole rule book. The questions you're asking are pretty fundamental questions, and who knows what you don't even know to ask about.
I got the impression choosing produce yourself also produced on the windfall worlds?
mugs wrote:
Quote:
Is there enough game in RFTG? Do you think it's enough and enough time-wise?

Do you all think it's _GREAT_?


Yes, yes, yes.
Does the game last longer with the expansion due to people picking other things which will bring points at the end of the game and hence may not put down as many cards or get VPs directly?
 
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Johan Haglert
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And yeah, I'm well aware I don't really know what I'm doing

Bla bla about my issues:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Went back here to post another basic question (I think I read through all at some time and watched the introduction videos but then I'm played 11 games vs the Keldon AI but you don't really need to know "what" happen when but can think something wrong (for instance that settle give -1 in cost instead of an extra card but then notice that it "seem wrong"), the program will obviously only let you do the correct moves so your idea can be wrong . Anyway since then I haven't played but tried Keldon AI again and it takes me quite a while to decide what to do (mostly what to discard.) Remembered this old question so I asked it. I actually got that card mentioned above and noticed that to now on my 12th Keldon AI game, I read the text again and noticed that I would had misunderstood trade and produce (or rather what bonus they gave and when in the case of trade), and as seen in another thread I'm still confused about trade vs consume.)


Happened to notice this thread now so it disturbed my game =P, so now I don't know what happens

http://tinypic.com/r/2ekrceg/5

Gamelog:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Blue starts with Old Earth.
Red starts with New Sparta.
Green starts with Earth's Lost Colony.
--- Round 1 begins ---
Blue chooses Explore +1,+1.
Red chooses Explore +1,+1.
Green chooses Develop.
Blue draws 3 and keeps 2.
Red draws 3 and keeps 2.
Green draws 2 and keeps 1.
Blue pays 1.
Blue develops Export Duties.
Red pays 1.
Red develops Public Works.
Green develops Expedition Force.
--- Round 2 begins ---
Blue chooses Explore +1,+1.
Red chooses Develop.
Green chooses Produce.
Blue draws 3 and keeps 2.
Red draws 2 and keeps 1.
Green draws 3 and keeps 1.
Red develops New Military Tactics.
Green produces on Earth's Lost Colony.
--- Round 3 begins ---
Blue chooses Settle.
Red chooses Explore +1,+1.
Green chooses Consume-x2.
Blue draws 2 and keeps 1.
Red draws 3 and keeps 2.
Green draws 3 and keeps 1.
Blue pays 2 for Asteroid Belt.
Red conquers Runaway Robots.
Green pays 5 for New Earth.
Blue consumes good from Asteroid Belt using Old Earth.
Red consumes good from Runaway Robots using Public Works.
Green consumes good from Earth's Lost Colony using New Earth.
Blue receives 1 VP for Consume phase.
Red receives 1 VP for Consume phase.
Green receives 1 card and 2 VP for Consume phase.
--- Round 4 begins ---
Blue chooses Explore +1,+1.
Red chooses Develop.
Green chooses Explore +1,+1.
Blue draws 3 and keeps 2.
Red draws 2 and keeps 1.
Green draws 4 and keeps 2.
Red pays 2.
Red develops Terraforming Robots.
--- Round 5 begins ---
Blue chooses Settle.
Red chooses Produce.
Green chooses Explore +1,+1.
Blue draws 2 and keeps 1.
Red draws 2 and keeps 1.
Green draws 4 and keeps 2.
Blue pays 3 for Mining World.
Red pays 2 for Radioactive World.
Green pays 2 for Gem World.
Blue produces on Mining World.
Red produces on Runaway Robots.
Green produces on Gem World.
Green produces on New Earth.
Green produces on Earth's Lost Colony.
Blue receives 1 card for Produce phase.
Red receives 1 card for Produce phase.
Green receives 1 card for Produce phase.
--- Round 6 begins ---
Blue chooses Settle.
Red chooses Consume-x2.
Green chooses Consume-x2.
In cases like this:
http://tinypic.com/r/166jjfb/5
http://tinypic.com/r/121zuxu/5

I've probably read 2x as "multiplied by 2" on some occasions and not as "You can do this for two cards" which is the only thing which make sense. Who knows . And I doubt you care =P
 
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Brandon M
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aliquis wrote:
mugs wrote:
Windfall worlds start with a good on them, but they don't produce goods on themselves. To produce on a windfall world you need a produce power that lets you produce on a windfall world; this can come from cards in your tableau or by selecting the produce action.

You should probably go back and re-read the whole rule book. The questions you're asking are pretty fundamental questions, and who knows what you don't even know to ask about.
I got the impression choosing produce yourself also produced on the windfall worlds?


Yes, selecting the produce action gives you a bonus power that lets you produce on ONE windfall world. You can use powers on other cards to produce on additional windfall worlds and to produce on windfall worlds when someone else selects the produce action.

aliquis wrote:

mugs wrote:
Quote:
Is there enough game in RFTG? Do you think it's enough and enough time-wise?

Do you all think it's _GREAT_?


Yes, yes, yes.
Does the game last longer with the expansion due to people picking other things which will bring points at the end of the game and hence may not put down as many cards or get VPs directly?


It's not a long game. It is a race. Whether you are pushing for 12+ cards or for VP chits, you should be doing it as fast as possible. I believe the rules state that a game will last 7-10 rounds, and that is accurate. When playing a 2-player game with the rules for experienced players (2 actions per player per round) and the first two expansions, I almost never see a game last more than 8 rounds and usually no more than 7. If you think a short game can't be a great game, you're playing the wrong game. Race for the Galaxy is a great game.
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Serge Levert
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aliquis wrote:
Does the game last longer with the expansion due to people picking other things which will bring points at the end of the game and hence may not put down as many cards or get VPs directly?

No, expansions last about as long.

aliquis wrote:
In cases like this:
http://tinypic.com/r/166jjfb/5
http://tinypic.com/r/121zuxu/5

I've probably read 2x as "multiplied by 2" on some occasions and not as "You can do this for two cards" which is the only thing which make sense. Who knows :). And I doubt you care =P

Consume-x2 is an action choice.


What you saw in the last picture, is the Old Earth IV power.


Its consume power allows you to consume 1 good for 1 vp. The x2 on the power means you can use the power twice. I.e. 2 goods for 2 vp.

Here's the test: if you choose Consume-x2, and have 2 goods, how many VP chips do you get if you use Old Earth IV power?
 
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Johan Haglert
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entranced wrote:
aliquis wrote:
Does the game last longer with the expansion due to people picking other things which will bring points at the end of the game and hence may not put down as many cards or get VPs directly?

No, expansions last about as long.

aliquis wrote:
In cases like this:
http://tinypic.com/r/166jjfb/5
http://tinypic.com/r/121zuxu/5

I've probably read 2x as "multiplied by 2" on some occasions and not as "You can do this for two cards" which is the only thing which make sense. Who knows . And I doubt you care =P

Consume-x2 is an action choice.


What you saw in the last picture, is the Old Earth IV power.


Its consume power allows you to consume 1 good for 1 vp. The x2 on the power means you can use the power twice. I.e. 2 goods for 2 vp.

Here's the test: if you choose Consume-x2, and have 2 goods, how many VP chips do you get if you use Old Earth IV power?
Yeah, I have no problem understanding the cards but the UI in Keldon AI don't use the icons but just shows (X2) as text in the pull-down menu and that obviously could mean both "You've got two of this" or "This will get multiplied by two" (but the 1 VP and 1 card would also be multiplied so that doesn't make any sense. But how you read it depends on whatever you think first or not =P)

4.
 
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