Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
7 Posts

Talisman (Revised 4th Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Warlock's Quest and Crown of Command interaction rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Kevin Wood
United States
Alexandria
Virginia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Well, we had quite an interesting game yesterday. A couple of questions came up concerning the rules for completing a Warlock's Quest and I'm curious to get some feedback about these situations.

First, the most contentious issue: A player managed to portal directly into the Crown of Command using the Great Portal from the Varthrax deck.

He had made a serious dent in the Dragon King, but wasn't able to finish him off on his turn. Another player, during his turn, cast a spell on the player in the CoC that would give him a Warlock's Quest. After much arguing, we decided that gaining a quest would require him to depart the CoC to fulfill it. This was using a rather strict reading of the rules since they don't elaborate too much: "...must attempt to complete his quest immediately if he is able to do so."

Two possible scenarios could arise: 1) the player would draw a quest that he could complete immediately, or 2) the player would draw a quest that he could not complete immediately. We decided that in case 1 that he would have to fulfill the quest immediately which would send him to the Warlock's Cave for his reward. In Case 2, we decided he would have to leave the Crown of Command to attempt to fulfill the quest.

There was quite a lot of protesting, but the player could not make a rules case supporting why neither of the above should happen as outlined. He drew the "Lose 2 turns" quest, lost 2 turns, then was sent to the Warlock's cave. I'm curious to know what others think of this situation.

We had another related issue as well. One player drew the "Defeat the Sentinel" quest. At the time, it was mathematically possible, although unlikely, that he could defeat the Sentinel. Again, with a strict reading of the rules, we decided he had to attempt to do it. His first attempt didn't go well, but on his subsequent turn he was able to lose a strength, meaning he no longer "was able" to do his quest, so he didn't have to actively work towards it. However, he was also put into a difficult situation in that this quest was most likely going to get him killed once he regained a strength.

Any comments?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Wood
United States
Alexandria
Virginia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
And to make this convenient, here are some relevant rules:

Talisman Fourth Edition Revised Rules wrote:

Warlock’s Cave

A character who lands on the Warlock’s Cave may choose to accept a quest, or not, as he wishes. If a character chooses to accept a quest, he must roll randomly to determine what it will be, as instructed on the space. A character may not go on more than one quest at a time. If a character has already completed a quest and lands on the Warlock’s Cave again, he may choose to go on another quest but must roll a die to randomly determine which quest he is assigned as normal.

A character must attempt to complete his quest immediately if he is able to do so. In addition, the Warlock will prevent any character who has accepted a quest from opening the Portal of Power until he has first completed his quest.


Talisman The Reaper Rules wrote:

Warlock Quest Cards

Warlock Quest Cards represent missions characters may take on when they visit the Warlock’s Cave space.

In the base game, players who travel to the Warlock’s Cave space may roll a die to take on one of six available quests. Players are only allowed to take on one quest at a time, and must complete the quest’s objective as soon as possible.

The deck of Warlock Quest Cards not only includes the original six quests from the Warlock’s Cave space, but also six new quests, such as delivering a Spell or travelling to the City.

When playing with the Warlock Quest Cards, when a character lands on the Warlock’s Cave space, that player chooses freely one of the available Warlock Quest Cards from among those available in the Warlock Quest Card deck, instead of rolling a die to determine which quest he is assigned. Once he has chosen, he places the card faceup in his player area. Once the quest is complete, the card is removed from the game. Therefore, each Warlock Quest Card may only be completed once per game. If a character with a Warlock Quest Card is killed, return the card to the deck.

All other rules governing Warlock Quest Cards continue to apply when the Warlock Quest Cards are used: only one quest can be accepted at a time, quests must be completed as soon as possible, and so on.


Talisman Frostmarch: Rules wrote:

Gaining Quests

In the base game, characters who travel to the Warlock’s Cave may roll a die to receive one of six quests. When playing with the Warlock Quest Cards, players must draw the top card from the deck of available Warlock Quests instead of rolling a die to determine which quest he is assigned. The card is then placed faceup in the player’s play area.

When players complete a Warlock Quest, the card is removed from the game. Therefore, each Warlock Quest Card may only be completed once per game. If a character with a Warlock Quest is killed or his quest is discarded, the card is returned to the deck of available quests. Whenever a Warlock Quest is returned to the deck, the deck must be shuffled.

All other rules governing Warlock Quests continue to apply when Warlock Quest Cards are used: only one quest can be accepted at a time, quests must be completed as soon as possible, characters who have accepted a quest are prevented from opening the Portal of Power until the quest is complete, and so on.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Devon Harmon
United States
Indianapolis
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Caveat: I have no basis in the rules for what I am about to type, so please read at your own peril/disregard as you please:

That being said, I've been playing different iterations of Talisman since 1987 or so. I rate it a 10 (or at least a 9, I'm too lazy too check right now), so at least in my own mind I have some Talisman credibility. I've always interpreted the whole "must complete the quest thing" to mean that you cannot enter the Valley of Fire with an open quest (edit: it looks like the actual rule is one cannot enter the Plain of Peril with an open quest). I think the "must complete his quest immediately if he is able to" part refers to quests that involve the player cashing in items/gold/strength/etc...; if he possesses the requested items, he has to give them up right away, even if it is painful to do so.

So with respect to the second situation involving the Sentinel, I'd play it that the player doesn't have to go fight the sentinel immediately; they can adventure around a bit and get stronger first, they just can't make a run on the Crown of Command until they do.

The first situation is trickier. I've only played with the Dragons expansion once, and the game went much longer than usual. I was happy to see it end (despite loving Talisman and all). We tend to play such that you only prevent someone else from winning if you are in a position to win yourself (which is a totally subjective criteria, but I trust the people I play with, since we've been playing Talisman together for nearly 20 years). We don't really care for situations where a player is poised to win, only to be drug back down to mediocrity, while we sit around for another hour or so to determine the winner. With that in mind, my initial reaction is to let the guy fight the dragon, since he was already there when he received the quest (even if it does violate the rules). But if there was another player on the Plain of Peril, making his way up to challenge the dragon for supremacy of the land, then sorry, off to the Warlock's Cave after your two turn rest. Enjoy your shiny new Talisman! It might seem like an arbitrary ruling, but Talisman is pretty arbitrary to begin with.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Kahan
United States
Annandale
VA
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
In this situation, there was another character climbing the Dragon Tower and unless we missed something in the rules that specifies that characters in the CoC cannot be given quests, if the quest had been "lose two gold" or something insta-completed I think the character in the CoC would fulfil the quest requirements and be teleported to the Warlock's Cave. I. This case though, I can't find anything that suggests that a player can just arbitrarily choose to lose a turn: the quest for that can only be fulfilled if the game engine causes the character to lose a turn (turned into a toad, lost in forest, etc.. ). If my interpretation of that is correct, I think we erred and should have just let him finish off the Dragon King as the quest wasn't able to be fulfilled immediately.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Wood
United States
Alexandria
Virginia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Oboewan wrote:
In this situation, there was another character climbing the Dragon Tower and unless we missed something in the rules that specifies that characters in the CoC cannot be given quests, if the quest had been "lose two gold" or something insta-completed I think the character in the CoC would fulfil the quest requirements and be teleported to the Warlock's Cave. I. This case though, I can't find anything that suggests that a player can just arbitrarily choose to lose a turn: the quest for that can only be fulfilled if the game engine causes the character to lose a turn (turned into a toad, lost in forest, etc.. ). If my interpretation of that is correct, I think we erred and should have just let him finish off the Dragon King as the quest wasn't able to be fulfilled immediately.


Jeff,

The quest card that was drawn states, "Lose Your Next Two Turns."

I don't think this is an issue at all--it's quite clear.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ian Kelly
United States
Longmont
Colorado
flag msg tools
Allow me to introduce myself. I am Hexachlorophene J. Goodfortune, Kidnapper-At-Large, and Devourer of Tortoises par Excellence, at your service.
badge
If you can read this, then this sentence is false.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
kvn299 wrote:
Two possible scenarios could arise: 1) the player would draw a quest that he could complete immediately, or 2) the player would draw a quest that he could not complete immediately. We decided that in case 1 that he would have to fulfill the quest immediately which would send him to the Warlock's Cave for his reward. In Case 2, we decided he would have to leave the Crown of Command to attempt to fulfill the quest.


Case 1 is correct. If he can immediately complete the quest then he must do so, and that sends him to the Warlock's Cave for his "reward".

That's as far as the obligation goes, though. The key word in the rule is "immediately". There is no requirement that the player start seeking out the quest so that he can fulfill it as soon as possible if he is not immediately able to do so. So in case 2, there would be no real effect.

For example, suppose the quest drawn is "Discard a spell". If the player happens to have a spell, then he must discard it and complete the quest. If he does not have a spell, he does not need to drop everything else he is doing in order to go try to find a spell to discard.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Wood
United States
Alexandria
Virginia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Peristarkawan wrote:

Case 1 is correct. If he can immediately complete the quest then he must do so, and that sends him to the Warlock's Cave for his "reward".

That's as far as the obligation goes, though. The key word in the rule is "immediately". There is no requirement that the player start seeking out the quest so that he can fulfill it as soon as possible if he is not immediately able to do so. So in case 2, there would be no real effect.

For example, suppose the quest drawn is "Discard a spell". If the player happens to have a spell, then he must discard it and complete the quest. If he does not have a spell, he does not need to drop everything else he is doing in order to go try to find a spell to discard.


We've been discussing this among ourselves and this is pretty much what we agreed should happen. Thanks for reinforcing that!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.