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Twilight Imperium (Third Edition): Shards of the Throne» Forums » Rules

Subject: Keep of the gates, once Again. rss

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Simon Bourigault
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Okay, it has probably been said before, but :

For the keeper of the gate SO, we know that : The extra WH DS tokens do not count. The WormHole Nexus does not count. Things from the Creuss do not count (D and extra tokens).
So basically, only the 4 tiles from the base game with a wormhole printed on them count. Now, If you have the empty tile with just an alpha wormhole, but no other tile with an alpha wormhole, do you have to control it ?

And more important : with SE+SoTT, there are less wormholes in play, on average. Doesn't it make Keeper of the gates too easy ?
 
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Simon Kamber
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Simboubou wrote:
Okay, it has probably been said before, but :

For the keeper of the gate SO, we know that : The extra WH DS tokens do not count. The WormHole Nexus does not count. Things from the Creuss do not count (D and extra tokens).
So basically, only the 4 tiles from the base game with a wormhole printed on them count. Now, If you have the empty tile with just an alpha wormhole, but no other tile with an alpha wormhole, do you have to control it ?

It only counts if there is another exit somewhere. If you are not playing with the nexus, that means yiu do not have to control it unless a DS marker shows up. In that way, the DS marker can make a difference even if you do not need to control it.

Quote:
And more important : with SE+SoTT, there are less wormholes in play, on average. Doesn't it make Keeper of the gates too easy ?


Balance between the SOs has always been poor, and even more so in SotT. Particularly if the Creuss are in the game, the objective is either next to impossible (if you dont play the Creuss) or laughably easy (if you do).
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Simon Bourigault
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Hum... it does make sense, and you are probably right, but can you source that ?

Concerning the secret objectives balance : that is true, but Keeper of the gates seems to be different. As you said, it can become terribly difficult or ridiculusly easy, while the others seem to be more "constant".
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Martin DeOlden
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In the games I play my group has decided that you need 2 sets of wormholes to qualify. It does not matter what wormholes just as long as you have 2 sets. The Wormhole nexus makes it a little easier as it already has an A & B on it so you would just need another A & another B somewhere else. Or a set of C & B (as long as it is 2 sets). That way no matter if a lot of wormholes appear on the board you will always need the same amount.
This takes a lot of the questions out on the SO.
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J D
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Simboubou wrote:


And more important : with SE+SoTT, there are less wormholes in play, on average. Doesn't it make Keeper of the gates too easy ?


I fixed this problem by making sure those 4 original wormhole systems are in every game, and they are the only ones that count for this secret objective. If i want a layout with more or less wormholes i remove this card.
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Rus
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Simboubou wrote:
For the keeper of the gate SO, we know that [...] The WormHole Nexus does not count.


How do we know that? The FAQ states that only the original 4 wormholes count, but that portion of the FAQ predates SE. Technically, short of an official ruling this seems to be ambiguous. Does anybody have an official ruling, such as an email from Corey?

I would argue that because SE and SotT make the original wormholes less likely to appear, the WN should count for Keeper of Gates to preserve the original balance (such as it was).
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Scott Lewis
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rbelikov wrote:
Simboubou wrote:
For the keeper of the gate SO, we know that [...] The WormHole Nexus does not count.


How do we know that? The FAQ states that only the original 4 wormholes count, but that portion of the FAQ predates SE. Technically, short of an official ruling this seems to be ambiguous. Does anybody have an official ruling, such as an email from Corey?

It's on page 10 of the Shattered Empire rulebook, rightmost column, at the bottom:

"Note: The Wormhole Nexus need not be controlled to fulfill the “Keeper of Gates” Special Objective (but it can be easier to fulfill this objective if playing with the Wormhole Nexus)."

Can't get much more official than that
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Simon Kamber
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Simboubou wrote:
Hum... it does make sense, and you are probably right, but can you source that ?


I don't have the book handy, but it states somewhere in the TI rulebook that wormholes without an exit are ignored and have no effect.

Quote:
Concerning the secret objectives balance : that is true, but Keeper of the gates seems to be different. As you said, it can become terribly difficult or ridiculusly easy, while the others seem to be more "constant".

It is definitely in the swingy end, but so are the tech specialization ones. Sometimes, those become literally impossible to achieve.
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Andy Day

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Jacob Dryearth wrote:
Simboubou wrote:


And more important : with SE+SoTT, there are less wormholes in play, on average. Doesn't it make Keeper of the gates too easy ?


I fixed this problem by making sure those 4 original wormhole systems are in every game, and they are the only ones that count for this secret objective. If i want a layout with more or less wormholes i remove this card.
Seconded.
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John Clark
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I just leave out this SO. Its either way too easy or way too hard - makes the game less fun either way.
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Adam Mitchell
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But what happens if you have this SO and there are NO wormholes?!?
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Scott Lewis
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Solan wrote:
But what happens if you have this SO and there are NO wormholes?!?

Technically by the book, it will be easy to claim, since if there are 0 wormholes, you control all 0 systems with wormholes!

I think many groups would probably have a standing agreement to just discard that one and redraw, though

(For me, one of the few "house rules" I kind of implement is to ensure that the Wormholes make it in every galaxy, as it helps increase interaction between players in most cases).
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