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Sid Meier's Civilization: The Board Game – Fame and Fortune» Forums » Rules

Subject: Seven Cities of Gold tile rss

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Walter Stevenhagen
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Had a question that popped up yesterday due to the Seven Cities of Gold.

The rules state that "the Seven Cities of Gold is a forest square."

Reading this, you'd expect it to provide 2 hammers, but those 2 hammers aren't printed on the square.

If you look at the other 2 relics, you'll see that the rules specifically mention what kind of square they are and you'll also see that their square actually shows the trade/hammer symbol belonging to their terrain type.

With this information, it's possible that the Seven Cities of Gold counts as a forest square for the purpose of placing buildings, but doesn't actually provide any hammers.

Question in short:
Does the square of the Seven Cities of Gold provide 2 hammers?
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Daniel Hammond
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Grinning One wrote:
Had a question that popped up yesterday due to the Seven Cities of Gold.

The rules state that "the Seven Cities of Gold is a forest square."

Reading this, you'd expect it to provide 2 hammers, but those 2 hammers aren't printed on the square.

If you look at the other 2 relics, you'll see that the rules specifically mention what kind of square they are and you'll also see that their square actually shows the trade/hammer symbol belonging to their terrain type.

With this information, it's possible that the Seven Cities of Gold counts as a forest square for the purpose of placing buildings, but doesn't actually provide any hammers.

Question in short:
Does the square of the Seven Cities of Gold provide 2 hammers?


I think you would have to say it doesn't unless some errata comes out regarding it.
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Ian Kelly
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My thinking is that it doesn't provide 2 hammers because it provides the coin instead. 1 hammer and a coin appears on a few mountains, but 2 hammers and a coin would make it the single best unimproved square on the map.

Just be happy about your free coin and investments and move on.
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Sam Butler
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I would have to say no hammers, unless an errata comes out otherwise. (But, this would be a good question to submit to the designer to make sure the printing was proper on the square.)

I believe the "it is a forest square" means improvements that can be built in a forest can be built there. It is not meant to supersede the production from that square.
 
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Patrick Gagnon
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It doesn't provide any terrain bonus is just that this square it treated as a forest square for game/legality. That's how we play it.
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Timothy Pride
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Let's just say that rule is for Seven Cities of Gold square is eligible as deforestation target.
 
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Daniel Hammond
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Darkmot wrote:
Let's just say that rule is for Seven Cities of Gold square is eligible as deforestation target. :p


AFTER the relic is claimed.
 
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Simon Lindén
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A discussion on this topic took off in a PBF game currently played. I am directing the discussion to this thread to make sure the PBF thread does not get too many unrelated posts.

I am of the opinion that it must be a misprint. Either in the rulebook (which should then say grassland instead), or on the board (which should then have two hammers). It was argued that making the tile grassland with coin would make it overpowered as it would give players the opportunity to build aqueducts/universities after getting a powerful relic. I just can't see this as anything other than a very small advantage as you would lose a coin in the process. If the designers really cared that much about not making these tiles too imbalanced they should have made the relics weaker instead.
 
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Andreas Hohmann
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Alandor wrote:
ahdiabolo wrote:
Alandor wrote:
ahdiabolo wrote:
Alandor wrote:
I've decided that the gold is more important to me than the production so I will move there even if it just has one coin. It would indeed be a very good tile if it provided both 2 production and a coin so maybe it makes sense that it just has a coin. I don't understand why they say its a forest though...


I think they say that its forest because certain terrain types allow to build certain buildings.
They wanted to avoid discussion if this was a grassland (build granaries) or mountain (build workshops) etc.
The square provides "only" 1 coin.


EDIT
+for strategic purposes of playes DEFORESTATION to steal the coin

Still... why not just make it a grassland then.


Because you would have had the coin AND the chance to build universities or aquaducts on that space. These are two advatanges AFTER you already got two investments for free.

EDIT:
+it seems most thematic that El Dorado is somewhere in the jungle (forest)

Do you really think that's such a big advantage? The possibility to build an aqueduct/university and LOSE a coin in the process is rendered nearly pointless compared to the great advantage of getting a relic. If the designers really cared that much about not making these tiles too imbalanced they should have made the relics weaker instead.

But let's not clog up this thread with this discussion. If you wish to comment let's continue in the thread that focuses on this issue.

EDIT: The thread is here if anyone cares to follow it.



Yes, I do think that the pure possibility to build aqueducts or universities gives the square a little (not a huge) advatnage towards the forest-version.
Culture players e.g. can play a bit more flexible this way.
The forest version also allows the use of DEFORESTATION and thats 2 (?) more cards to deny the coin for other players than if it would have been a grassland.
 
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Simon Lindén
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It strikes me as very odd that the designer would avert from something as consistent in the game design as the icons provided by terrain types, for reasons as weak as the one's suggested. There are no other exceptions to this, every other square in the game has the same icons based on the terrain type they're on.

I agree that we will have to play by the rules that this is a forest square without any production, at least until we get an official errata. But the reasons to why they could have decided to do so remain so obscure that I'm more inclined to think that it is actually a misprint.
 
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Ian Kelly
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Alandor wrote:
It strikes me as very odd that the designer would avert from something as consistent in the game design as the icons provided by terrain types, for reasons as weak as the one's suggested. There are no other exceptions to this, every other square in the game has the same icons based on the terrain type they're on.


True, although either way you slice it, the Seven Cites of Gold square being either a grassland or a forest breaks with the otherwise consistent rule that coins only appear on mountains and water.
 
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Simon Lindén
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I posted a question about this to FFG and was lucky to get a response. Here's the full correspondence:

Rule Question:
Hello and thank you for a great game!
Is the seven cities of gold square supposed to be a forest square without hammers but a coin instead? The rulebook says its forest but it has no hammer icons on it. I wonder if this is a typo, that its really a grassland or maybe that its supposed to have two hammers?

Best regards,
Simon Lindén

It's a typo. The space should have 2 hammers and a coin.

-Kevin Wilson
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El-ad David Amir
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Alandor wrote:
It's a typo. The space should have 2 hammers and a coin.

-Kevin Wilson

Oh wow, that's quite a change.

Fortunately I don't play with relics anyway o_O
 
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Simon Lindén
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Yes, I'm not so surprised at the actual news as the fact that they haven't put this in an official errata.
 
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Robert Aronovici
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This is interesting. One tile that is very attractive now!
 
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Simon Lindén
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binici wrote:
This is interesting. One tile that is very attractive now!

It will certainly become a hot target for the deforestation card:)
 
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okonek okonek
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Ive got one question about Seven Cities of Gold.
Can it work even if you dont have any coin token?
Rules say that you can invest 2 coin tokens to 2 investment marker and there is no need to discard coin tokens. But what hapens when you dont have any coin tokens. Is is still working?
 
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Carsten Jorgensen
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okonek wrote:
Ive got one question about Seven Cities of Gold.
Can it work even if you dont have any coin token?
Rules say that you can invest 2 coin tokens to 2 investment marker and there is no need to discard coin tokens. But what hapens when you dont have any coin tokens. Is is still working?


Yes. You just get two investment markers to place where you like.
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