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Subject: 4 games played so far, but I feel like I'm missing something. rss

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Matt Evans
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First let me get this out on the table. I love everything about this game. The theme, the components, the game play, the time played etc. However, I feel like I'm not experiencing the game the way others have been so far. I'm pretty sure we've just had super unlucky / uneventful games up to this point but maybe I'm wrong.

I'll give you the breakdown. I've played 4 total games of Dungeon Run. The first 2 games were 2 player matches with a few rule book references so they were a tad slow and relatively uneventful. We figured more players would certainly make things better. The 3rd game was a 3 player game that was pretty slow until the very end with some amusing portcullis combat. The 4th game was 4 players and lasted about an hour. There was hardly any player interaction as everyone just went to explore new rooms as quickly as possible to try and get encounters and level up. However, most rolls were duds so hardly anyone even got to fight or level up. Once the boss was killed and the stone was picked up, that player leveled up again. He used his new power to switch places with me, killed me easily his new power, and that put him 3 spaces away from the nearest player. We called the game there as there was nothing we could do to catch him. Again, kind of a bummer ending.

I talked with my friends afterwards about what they did / didn't like and we pretty much all agreed that we hardly had any encounters or treasure drawn the entire game. We barely got to use our cool character powers, or the treasures we had acquired. Once the boss tile is drawn there was literally only the Den tile remaining to use to try and level. Everything I've read says we're playing correctly, but we always feel like the boss hits the table too early. All those unique character abilities and assist / sabotage actions have never really come into play. It seems like we're missing out on some of the coolest parts of the game! We were talking about a house rule to allow dungeon tiles to reveal a second encounter when re-entered another time (or something like that). It's been the trend with all the games I've played to be hungry for more monsters to fight. Have we just been really unlucky, or is there something else I'm missing? I've already considered picking up a second copy for some extra dungeon tiles to see if that makes it more interesting, but I don't want to invest any more just yet as my friends are losing interest.

Are we just playing the game wrong?
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Adam Rouse
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Player interaction will only happen if you want it to. It is important to stay near someone if you want to be able to help or hinder him; otherwise, you are playing multiplayer solitaire. Following someone makes the game last longer because tiles are flopped less frequently. Most importantly, it gives you the opportunity to snatch kills and/or treasure from someone, as it isn't often you can kill a monster or pick up treasure the turn it comes out. Your opponent will of course not like this and may come after you next, leading to more player interaction and more game time.

And while heroes often forget about this, it is also not unheard of to receive help. If you all go off doing your own thing, assist-only monsters and tiles will become escape-only, which just isn't fun.

It doesn't sound like you played the rules wrong, it just seems like maybe you were all too adventurous and excited to flip new tiles as soon as possible -- either that or you had awful encounter rolls. I remember a funny story from each game I've played, all centering around someone messing with someone else.

Remember, if you get bad encounter rolls and can't level up or find treasure, there's no reason your friends should. Go knock someone out and steal their stuff. That'll yield you some player interaction.
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Matt Evans
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Thanks for the reply, I appreciate the advice. I was telling the guys I thought that was the problem. Splitting up too much is just not the best way to play the game. In our experience it's just been one person getting a few lucky breaks and leveling up, while the others are either missing encounters or running into assist only fights.

Oh and on that topic...assist only fights. How are those handled when you they are first revealed? If you're all alone and you reveal an assist only target, do you still get the initial free battle action against it?
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Conan Meriadoc
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mattamd wrote:
Oh and on that topic...assist only fights. How are those handled when you they are first revealed? If you're all alone and you reveal an assist only target, do you still get the initial free battle action against it?

Yes. Or rather, the monster gets the initial free battle action against you. Since you can't attack it, as per the rules, it gets a free attack against you (you don't get to defend). Ouch.

It can make it quite risky to flip new tiles, so you get an incentive to stay behind and stick with the other players... Maybe we're just overestimating the advantage gained by exploring.
 
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Kelly N.
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Dystopian wrote:
Yes. Or rather, the monster gets the initial free battle action against you. Since you can't attack it, as per the rules, it gets a free attack against you (you don't get to defend). Ouch.


I understand this interpretation, but we have been playing that on the initial encounter (tile being flipped) the hero gets to make his/hers response attack based on the rulebook statement that says, " - this "surprise" battle is mandatory, but does not count as 1 of the hero's 2 actions for the turn." The Glyph Room says, "only assisted players may make a battle action...". Traitor Knight says, "Heroes may only make battle actions when assisted". I guess we look at the surprise battle as not being an action, and the response attack by the hero as being a "phase" of the surprise battle, rather than a battle action.

I would love to see a clarification from Mr. Bistro on this.
 
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Kelly N.
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mattamd wrote:
We were talking about a house rule to allow dungeon tiles to reveal a second encounter when re-entered another time (or something like that). It's been the trend with all the games I've played to be hungry for more monsters to fight.


Seems like for the most part, y'all were victims of bad rolls. Of course house rules can always be utilized to suit your preference or play style. An idea I tossed around was that upon re-entering any tile, roll a die. If the result is a 5 or 6, you must roll for encounter/treasure again.
 
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Denis
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sabbat00 wrote:
I would love to see a clarification from Mr. Bistro on this.


You can find such in several threads here. I agree the wording is bad; I have no idea why the assist-only texts always refer to "battle actions" instead of something like "can not roll any dice" because that appears to be the intended effect.

Technically, Uber monsters and the Glyph Room trigger this rule:
Quote:
If the hero is unable to attack the
monster due to special rules, the monster gets to make
a free attack.
p9
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Adam Rouse
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Yes, it has been clarified that the monster gets a free attack in each of those examples. It's confusing. Seems like "attack" would have been the clearer term in this context than "battle action" since these things can occur during a move action, but simple enough once you know the ruling.
 
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Kelly N.
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Thanks All.

I'm good with it either way. All this does is change our strategies next time we play. These effects and features are sometimes moot when you roll crappy anyway.

We ended our game today by my son defeating me in a final battle by his rolling 7 hits with 8 dice. Lucky little turkey. shake
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Mike Bartko
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but we always feel like the boss hits the table too early.

- I just want to be sure.. when i read this it makes me think perhaps you are shuffling the lair card into the other cards?? the lair card does not get placed until the last dungeon tile is placed.... just making sure you're doing this right.
 
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john m
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adamxpaul wrote:
Player interaction will only happen if you want it to. It is important to stay near someone if you want to be able to help or hinder him; otherwise, you are playing multiplayer solitaire. Following someone makes the game last longer because tiles are flopped less frequently. Most importantly, it gives you the opportunity to snatch kills and/or treasure from someone, as it isn't often you can kill a monster or pick up treasure the turn it comes out. Your opponent will of course not like this and may come after you next, leading to more player interaction and more game time.

And while heroes often forget about this, it is also not unheard of to receive help. If you all go off doing your own thing, assist-only monsters and tiles will become escape-only, which just isn't fun.

It doesn't sound like you played the rules wrong, it just seems like maybe you were all too adventurous and excited to flip new tiles as soon as possible -- either that or you had awful encounter rolls. I remember a funny story from each game I've played, all centering around someone messing with someone else.

Remember, if you get bad encounter rolls and can't level up or find treasure, there's no reason your friends should. Go knock someone out and steal their stuff. That'll yield you some player interaction.


My games feel like solitaire as well. Everyone wants a new tile so move is the first action. It never dawned on any of us (three and four player games) about politics in the game, following people, stealing their treasure. I think that is something that should be more "automatic," because it is forced by the game. But, now that I know that I will try and bring that about as the experienced gamemaster of the boardgame.

I do wish, however, as said, that the rules and game mechanics forced you to interact. This is especially true if you play with young players that don't have the depth of analysis and love to see the new tiles (I do too.)
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Ian Armstrong
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I feel the same way as the OP.

Tried 2 two player games of this yesterday. Our first play through we had the first 5 tiles flipped with only encounters on them. There was a total of two treasure cards available for the entire game, both of which were not usable by our characters. Second play through was pretty much the same deal. None of us ever used our abilities, and only leveled up once each.

We did not follow and aid each other, so maybe this was the problem as per the replies in this thread. What I don't like about this explanation is that basically the game is forcing you to group and aid your fellow players, until the boss tile is laid. It doesn't seem like this is really an option.. if you all go your separate ways the tiles are laid way too quickly and the boss is out pretty much right away.

House rules I am going to try and use are:

1) Ues all dungeon tiles regardless of number of players - this should help to mitigate the possible low number of encounters / treasures available.

OR

2) Some mechanic for already laid tiles to generate additional encounters / treasures.

So first plays of this game were very frustrating. I will give it a shot with the above house rules, to see if it adds the "fun". If not this will be going in my trade pile.


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Shaun
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I thought the game fell flat with 2 players. The first part is fun, but the endgame after someone picks up the Stone is dodgy. My buddy picked up the stone, and then I killed him. I won! Kinda lame.

It also sucks when you want an encounter, but the die roll doesn't trigger one. Maybe encounters should be automatic?

Lastly, deciding where to place tiles can drastically change the game. Splitting up creates a game of solitaire. Creating a dungeon that is interconnected is key on order to have a chance at stopping the guy with the Stone in the end game.

I really like 90% of this game, but something seems a tad off, where some games are great to the end, and others kind of limp along.
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john m
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Bipf wrote:
I thought the game fell flat with 2 players. The first part is fun, but the endgame after someone picks up the Stone is dodgy. My buddy picked up the stone, and then I killed him. I won! Kinda lame.

It also sucks when you want an encounter, but the die roll doesn't trigger one. Maybe encounters should be automatic?

Lastly, deciding where to place tiles can drastically change the game. Splitting up creates a game of solitaire. Creating a dungeon that is interconnected is key on order to have a chance at stopping the guy with the Stone in the end game.

I really like 90% of this game, but something seems a tad off, where some games are great to the end, and others kind of limp along.


I thought you should get both encounter and treasure automatically, and if you defeat the monster you get the treasure automatically, no search action needed.

There a ton of cards that never get played so we never get a chance to really equip, try new things, and so on. This was with three player and four player games, using all the tiles. The game seems to be mostly about turning over new tiles and getting a good die roll. This is fun but after a few plays, you can only take beating up that piece of furniture so much .

It would also be interesting if something in the game forced you to do something to another hero on every encounter or maybe every so often or maybe helping a fellow hero could get some "partial" win (yes, I know that may sound dumb.) I've read the politics of the game but it seems a bit abstract to me.

This is not a bad game. I just don't get to use all the stuff in it. There's a lot of good stuff that can be used but never seems to get played. I always feel like I'm missing something.
 
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Contemptus Mundi
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How in the world is this playable as a solo game?

Has anyone tried playing two player, but with each player controlling two characters?

I'm still waiting for delivery on this game, but intend to play it with 2 player exclusively.
 
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Shaun
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LoweringTheBar wrote:
How in the world is this playable as a solo game?

Has anyone tried playing two player, but with each player controlling two characters?

I'm still waiting for delivery on this game, but intend to play it with 2 player exclusively.


I have yet to try it solo, but the game ends when you kill the Boss. I think it would be pretty fun, because you still get to level up. The rules state that you don't use abilities, but I don't think having abilities would ruin the game.
 
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Denis
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LoweringTheBar wrote:
How in the world is this playable as a solo game?


My session report might give you some insight: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/738191/solo-run-a-look-a...
 
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James Anderson
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sabbat00 wrote:

I guess we look at the surprise battle as not being an action, and the response attack by the hero as being a "phase" of the surprise battle, rather than a battle action.

I would love to see a clarification from Mr. Bistro on this.


There have been a few comments about this and actually if you watch the Watch it Played episode of the game they mention that they talked to the distributor and you can't attack back on an assist only critter (whether in the glyph room or otherwise).
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