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Subject: Limitations of mana rss

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Matt Tonks
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Really liking Mage Knight so far, but I am not completely clear on the restrictions on mana. Some examples:-

Crystallize - if I have already spent a mana dice for a previous card, does the base effect of Crystallize allow me to use up another dice to gain a crystal?

Units - similarly, if I have already used a mana dice, does this stop me from using another on a unit's effect?

Basically, I do not feel the rules are completely clear as to in what situations you can use more than one mana dice...
 
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Chris J Davis
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tonksey wrote:
Really liking Mage Knight so far, but I am not completely clear on the restrictions on mana. Some examples:-

Crystallize - if I have already spent a mana dice for a previous card, does the base effect of Crystallize allow me to use up another dice to gain a crystal?

Units - similarly, if I have already used a mana dice, does this stop me from using another on a unit's effect?

Basically, I do not feel the rules are completely clear as to in what situations you can use more than one mana dice...


No, yes, and there are none (unless a card specifically says you can).
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Doug Adams
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I read the rules as stating you can use one die from the source per turn, but I have seen a card or two allowing access to more. You need access to a mana to store it with Crystallize - I don't think that allows a double dip into the source to get it.
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Ryan Metzler
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bleached_lizard wrote:
tonksey wrote:
Really liking Mage Knight so far, but I am not completely clear on the restrictions on mana. Some examples:-

Crystallize - if I have already spent a mana dice for a previous card, does the base effect of Crystallize allow me to use up another dice to gain a crystal?

Units - similarly, if I have already used a mana dice, does this stop me from using another on a unit's effect?

Basically, I do not feel the rules are completely clear as to in what situations you can use more than one mana dice...


No, yes, and there are none (unless a card specifically says you can).


Correct.

To be very clear, the ONLY time you may use more than one mana die on a turn is when a card explicitly states that you can.
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Matt Tonks
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bleached_lizard wrote:
tonksey wrote:
Really liking Mage Knight so far, but I am not completely clear on the restrictions on mana. Some examples:-

Crystallize - if I have already spent a mana dice for a previous card, does the base effect of Crystallize allow me to use up another dice to gain a crystal?

Units - similarly, if I have already used a mana dice, does this stop me from using another on a unit's effect?

Basically, I do not feel the rules are completely clear as to in what situations you can use more than one mana dice...


No, yes, and there are none (unless a card specifically says you can).


Exactly. Crystallize says "when you play this card..." etc which led me to initially think that I could play the card (either right way up or sideways if for +1 Attack/Block/etc) & dip into another mana dice.

To me, it sounds like the card is specifically saying I can because of what it says on it.

Can you give me another example of a card which you think a card is specifically saying you can?
 
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Doug Adams
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Mana Draw lets you grab another die from the source
 
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Chris J Davis
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dougadamsau wrote:
Mana Draw lets you grab another die from the source


And Mana Storm.
 
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Aaron Morgan
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tonksey wrote:
Exactly. Crystallize says "when you play this card..." etc which led me to initially think that I could play the card (either right way up or sideways if for +1 Attack/Block/etc) & dip into another mana dice.


When you play a card sideways for a +1, that is the only benefit you get from the card.
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Keith Bryson
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dougadamsau wrote:
Mana Draw lets you grab another die from the source


Which brings to mind a question I have had for a bit about this specific card. If you use a white crystal or token to activate the mana draw card, do you still get to use an additional die in addition to the die you are turning into two tokens or does taking a die as part of the power count as your one die for the turn?

Thanks!
 
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Aaron Morgan
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realitytrip wrote:
f you use a white crystal or token to activate the mana draw card, do you still get to use an additional die in addition to the die you are turning into two tokens or does taking a die as part of the power count as your one die for the turn?


When you play a card for its action effect, you get one effect or the other, so using the strong effect prevents you from using the extra die effect.
 
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Chris J Davis
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EitherOrlok wrote:
realitytrip wrote:
f you use a white crystal or token to activate the mana draw card, do you still get to use an additional die in addition to the die you are turning into two tokens or does taking a die as part of the power count as your one die for the turn?


When you play a card for its action effect, you get one effect or the other, so using the strong effect prevents you from using the extra die effect.


I think this answer isn't really answering the question. The strong effect of Mana Draw says "Take a mana die from the Source..." It does not say that you are spending a mana. So the "taking a die from the Source" part does *not* count as your one die for that turn.
 
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Scott Yost
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My read on the card is that the powered version of Mana Draw doesn't consume your one source die, but it does lock up one die from the source for the duration of your turn. (so the one you pull and set to a color can't be one that you are using for something else)
 
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Yostage wrote:
My read on the card is that the powered version of Mana Draw doesn't consume your one source die, but it does lock up one die from the source for the duration of your turn. (so the one you pull and set to a color can't be one that you are using for something else)

I think the FAQ thread says just that (though obviously if you use the source to power the Mana Draw strong effect, that WOULD use up your one die limit.)
 
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Aaron Morgan
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The one per turn restriction is on *taking* one die from the source. Mana Draw says you are taking (and returning) a die.
 
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Cameron McKenzie
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Crystallize allows you to turn a mana token into a mana crystal. It does not specify where the mana token comes from. If you wish it to come from the source, it will cut into your once-per-turn ability to turn source dice into mana tokens (or twice with Mana Draw).

The powered version of Mana Draw instructs you to take a mana from the source and use it for a special purpose. This does not cut into your once-per-turn ability because pulling that mana die is specifically allowed by the Mana Draw card.

Just think of it this way - You will always do exactly what is said on your cards and unit powers. In addition to following this instructions, you may remove a die from the source and gain a mana token at any one time during your turn.
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Paul Grogan
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I never found this an issue. To me, the rule is clear: You may take and use voluntarily one mana die from the source each turn. If a card effect tells you to take a die / dice, this is in addition to your voluntary one.

So....

Crystalize. This is really simply. It basically converts mana tokens into crystals of the same colour. however, if the colour of mana token you spend is blue, you can gain a crystal of any colour.

So - for example: You play Crystallize for the basic effect. It tells you to pay one mana of a basic colour. It does not tell you to take a die from the source, it just says pay 1 mana. At this point, if you haven't used a die from the source this turn, you can take one, use it for mana to feed the crystallize and gain a crystal.

Mana Draw: You play this for the stronger effect. This costs white mana, so lets say that you pay for it using a white mana die from the source. This is your one and only die you can use from the source this turn.

However, the card then says "Take a mana die from the Source and set it to any color except gold. Gain two mana tokens of that color."

So, this is what you do. You take a die from the source and do what it says with it.


Combine the two. Lets say there is a white, red, green in the source.
You play Mana Draw using the White from the source. You then take the red die, set it to blue and take 2 blue mana tokens.
You use one of those blue mana tokens to play Stamina (stronger effect) for move 4, and you use the other blue mana to power a crystalize (stronger effect) to gain a white crystal. You then use the white crystal to play swiftness (stronger effect) to shoot the orcs before they get to attack you.

End result. You moved 4, you killed an orc. You used Mana Draw, Crystallize, Stamina and Swiftness. You only USED one mana die from the source (white), which you re-roll and put back. The one that you set to blue stays blue and goes back in the source.

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Chris Linneman
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I think the problem here is that Crystallize is not a terribly useful ability unless you have the time to spend a whole turn crystallizing a mana.
 
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Paul Grogan
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QBert80 wrote:
I think the problem here is that Crystallize is not a terribly useful ability unless you have the time to spend a whole turn crystallizing a mana.


? Sorry, I dont understand this comment.

You dont have to spend a whole turn crystallizing mana. My example shows using it to use a spare mana token to gain a crystal.
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Cameron McKenzie
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QBert80 wrote:
I think the problem here is that Crystallize is not a terribly useful ability unless you have the time to spend a whole turn crystallizing a mana.


It can be pretty useful. Successful city sieges can potentially cost a few mana to pull off so crystallize allows you to plan for it in advance. In other words, mana later may be more valuable than mana now..
 
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Steve Hope
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Crystallize is very useful. The game flow depends on building up stores of power and then using them to do "big" things. Crystallize is one of the few cards in your basic deck that lets you reallocate power from one turn to another (by storing your mana).
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Scott Yost
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It works as a nice "blue washer" - if you have a blue mana, crystallize can turn it into gold or black for you. I don't usually use it to turn a source die into a crystal except in the very early game - like you say, that's a big expense.

In the later game I usually find my self using it to store up a spare mana that came from somewhere - maybe I powered mana draw because I needed a certain color, but I couldn't use two of them. Or I started on a glade and have nothing to do with my gold this turn, or I'm saving up for an assault so I want to use a mana-producing character power and turn it into crystals, so I can get the crystal in my bag and crystallize out of my hand to prepare for the assault.
 
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Chris Linneman
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PaulGrogan wrote:

? Sorry, I dont understand this comment.

You dont have to spend a whole turn crystallizing mana. My example shows using it to use a spare mana token to gain a crystal.


I know, but usually I want to do something more impressive on my turn than crystallizing mana, and that means the one mana I get from the source needs to be used on something else, leaving Crystallize nothing more than a +1 Attack or +1 Move card in my hand. Maybe I'm not good enough at planning, but it seems I don't use the card for its ability more often than not. This might have something to do with my willingness to take copious amounts of wounds, which forces me to speed through my deck (in solo play) or risk not getting to use it.
 
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Paul Grogan
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Yostage wrote:
It works as a nice "blue washer" - if you have a blue mana, crystallize can turn it into gold or black for you.


Sorry, but this is not true. Gold and Black can never exist in crystal form, only as mana tokens.
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Scott Yost
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PaulGrogan wrote:
Yostage wrote:
It works as a nice "blue washer" - if you have a blue mana, crystallize can turn it into gold or black for you.


Sorry, but this is not true. Gold and Black can never exist in crystal form, only as mana tokens.


Darn it, I totally forgot about that. Okay, it's still a good blue washer, you just have to stay in the basic colors. And still good for saving up a gold from the glade that you couldn't figure out how to use, but you'll have to commit to saving it up as a basic color.
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"So - for example: You play Crystallize for the basic effect. It tells you to pay one mana of a basic colour. It does not tell you to take a die from the source, it just says pay 1 mana. At this point, if you haven't used a die from the source this turn, you can take one, use it for mana to feed the crystallize and gain a crystal."

It does not say in particular, that you have to pay the mana for Crystallize, does it?

The card is not completely precise about this IMHO...
 
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