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Subject: Couple of rules questions after first play... mostly about "stealing"... rss

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Joel Eddy
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1) When you steal a discarded card, you then "immediately" become the active player and must discard an additional card. Once you discard a card, do you still have the draft afterwards?

2) If someone else steals the card the first "Thief" discarded, is the initial "Thief" out of luck when it comes to drawing cards back up to the 10 card hand limit, but the second "Thief" is OK since you draft after all the thieving is done? (sorry if this question isn't clear).

3) If, by means of stealing, the Dealer is "skipped" as the active player, you still don't increment the multiplier correct? And also, if the Dealer is a thief, they increment the multiplier every time they steal? Correct?

Thanks.

-edit-

Another question. If you never put a stake out, it's still assumed that you are in for the "base" stake of 1 correct?
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Hi Joel,

Thanks for the questions. I have addressed them here:

1a) Yes, when you steal a card, you immediately become the active player (skipping everyone along the way, and if it skips the dealer, the multiplier is not increased – one good way to keep the multiplier low). You will now need to discard a card as you have 11 cards total in your hand & play area. Once you discarded the card, play moves on to the next player (unless of course someone else steals your discard).

1b) When four cards are played, the drafting stage ends. Now players can end the game by playing the fifth card or draw and discard a card (which can be stolen). Thus, there should not be any more drafting after you discard a card, unless I am misinterpreting the question. If the question was whether he draws a card after he discards, then, no. As stealing a card is a form of drawing (adding a new card to your hand).

2) I think the earlier answers should clear this up. But just to reiterate, the 10 card hand includes the card you have stolen. So to illustrate. The thief has 10 cards in hand. He steals a discarded card by playing two cards from his hand to form a 3-running number (need not be the same suit) or 3-of-a-kind with the stolen card. Thus, he now has 8 cards in his hand and 3 cards in his play area (total: 11). Therefore he needs to discard a card to bring it back to 10. Play then passes to the player on his left.

3) Yes, you are correct. If dealer is skipped, the multiplier is not increased. And if the dealer is the thief the multiplier is incremented every time he does so. Thus, a dealer with a good hand can use this strategy to quickly increase the multiplier. Or other players may choose to skip the dealer’s turn to keep the multiplier low.

4) Yes. The base stake of one means everyone is involved till the end. Also, 2 other stakes are always involved. Your stake as well as the other player’s stake. If you lost and played no stakes, then the points you lost to the winner will be (base stake + winner’s stake) multiplied by the multiplier. If you won and played no stakes, then you win points from every player equivalent to (base stake + that player’s stake) multiplied by the multiplier. Only in some freaky games, will both winner and loser stakes be zero . In this case, the points exchanged are base stake multiplied by multiplier.

Sorry for the very long explanation as I tried to be as detailed and clear as possible.

Wish you many happy gaming hours with For Fame & Fortune (F3).

Regards,
Edwin
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Joel Eddy
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Awesome. Thanks.

I guess we didn't consider the 3 cards from the "stolen" set as part of that players hand. Do you still have a draft after someone steals?
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Joel Eddy
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eekamouse wrote:
Awesome. Thanks.

I guess we didn't consider the 3 cards from the "stolen" set as part of that players hand. Do you still have a draft after someone steals?


I'll go ahead and answer my own question here. I guess a steal is still technically considered a "pass". I think we got wrapped around the axle on the whole passing thing. We had a player who loved stealing.

The rules states if you pass, you just continue play around the left. And you draft if "everyone" passes. But, if people are stealing, then do you count everyone as in "everyone at the table"? Or, "everyone in consecutive order going to the left"? This is probably an impossibly rare situations
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Joel Eddy
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Had a chance to play the game correctly today, and also a chance to play a couple of two player games (surprised that it's as fun with two as more actually).

Couple more questions/clarifications:

1) When the modifier hits x8 or you run out of the deck, the rules stat that the active player must play the 5th card? What if they can't make a hand? And, what if there aren't four stake cards already out when this happens? This came up in one of our two player games, that there was only one stake card when the multiplier hit x8.

2) Can you have more than one Fame/Fortune in front of you? Not that this is a good idea, but it's in the realm of possibility.

3) Re-reading the rules, it states the draft phase ends on the fourth stake card. Do you still have a final draft of one card or no?

Thanks!

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eekamouse wrote:
Awesome. Thanks.

I guess we didn't consider the 3 cards from the "stolen" set as part of that players hand. Do you still have a draft after someone steals?


Hi Joel,

Sorry, took a while to try to understand how this question came about. As mentioned, stealing can only be done after drafting ends, thus there should not be any case where drafting and stealing are considered together.

To note: You cannot steal stake cards. Those remain in front of the person that played them and are not counted in the 10 cards hand limit. We usually put them further out than the 3-cards Fame/Fortune cards that you get from stealing.

If you can explain in slightly more detail, how this question come about, that would help. Thanks.

Regards,
Edwin
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Joel Eddy
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Heavenblazer wrote:
eekamouse wrote:
Awesome. Thanks.

I guess we didn't consider the 3 cards from the "stolen" set as part of that players hand. Do you still have a draft after someone steals?


Hi Joel,

Sorry, took a while to try to understand how this question came about. As mentioned, stealing can only be done after drafting ends, thus there should not be any case where drafting and stealing are considered together.

To note: You cannot steal stake cards. Those remain in front of the person that played them and are not counted in the 10 cards hand limit. We usually put them further out than the 3-cards Fame/Fortune cards that you get from stealing.

If you can explain in slightly more detail, how this question come about, that would help. Thanks.

Regards,
Edwin


Sure thing. Everything you say in this post is clear, and it's how we've been playing it. I think I clarified it a bit more in the edit to clarify it. We've been playing part right. What about the questions in the following post?
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eekamouse wrote:
eekamouse wrote:
Awesome. Thanks.

I guess we didn't consider the 3 cards from the "stolen" set as part of that players hand. Do you still have a draft after someone steals?


I'll go ahead and answer my own question here. I guess a steal is still technically considered a "pass". I think we got wrapped around the axle on the whole passing thing. We had a player who loved stealing.

The rules states if you pass, you just continue play around the left. And you draft if "everyone" passes. But, if people are stealing, then do you count everyone as in "everyone at the table"? Or, "everyone in consecutive order going to the left"? This is probably an impossibly rare situations


Hi Joel,

Yes, stealing is technically a "pass", but can only occur after drafting (after four stake cards have been played and a final drafting of 1 card is over). Passing after the drafting stage means that you draw a card and discard a card, or in this case you steal a card and discard a card.

Passing during the drafting phase is different. You do not draw a card. The player to your left simply becomes the new active player. Thus, in this way it is easy to imagine the scenario where everyone passes and play returns to the first player that passed. In this case, everyone drafts (based on 5 - number of stake cards on the table), and this player now have to decide if he wishes to pass again or play stake cards.

An example:
A 3 player game (A, B & C-dealer). Starts with a draft of 5 cards. "A" plays a stake card, everyone drafts 4 cards and "B" decides to pass. It is now "C"'s turn. Multiplier increases by one because it's the dealer's turn. "C" also passes, and it is "A"'s turn. "A" decides to pass as well. So in this case, all 3 player passed. They draft 4 cards again. And it is now "B"'s turn.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Edwin

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Joel Eddy
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Ah geez. I'm not normally this dense. I think it's flipping of the rules cards that got the sequence all out of order for me. Thanks for your patience!

So, it's pass or stake and then draft after staking. Then when there are four cards out, only THEN do you start drawing and discarding! And that's when the stealing commences! Whew! Just a little note, we've enjoyed even though we've been playing it totally wrong

What about this question (it might no longer be valid):

Quote:

1) When the modifier hits x8 or you run out of the deck, the rules stat that the active player must play the 5th card? What if they can't make a hand? And, what if there aren't four stake cards already out when this happens? This came up in one of our two player games, that there was only one stake card when the multiplier hit x8.
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eekamouse wrote:
Had a chance to play the game correctly today, and also a chance to play a couple of two player games (surprised that it's as fun with two as more actually).

Couple more questions/clarifications:

1) When the modifier hits x8 or you run out of the deck, the rules stat that the active player must play the 5th card? What if they can't make a hand? And, what if there aren't four stake cards already out when this happens? This came up in one of our two player games, that there was only one stake card when the multiplier hit x8.

2) Can you have more than one Fame/Fortune in front of you? Not that this is a good idea, but it's in the realm of possibility.

3) Re-reading the rules, it states the draft phase ends on the fourth stake card. Do you still have a final draft of one card or no?

Thanks!



Hi Joel,

Yep.I really enjoy 2-players F3 as well. It's a tight battle to outwit the opponent knowing half of his hand and him knowing yours as well. There is also the "chicken" element, as you see the multiplier ticking away .

Will answer your questions here:

1) This is the only exception to the condition that you need to have a Fortune Hand before you can end the game. This is covered in the FAQ page on our website http://www.blackdovegames.com/index-f3-2.html, but I will post it here in BGG later. In this case, there is a possibility that the game ends with less than 5 stake cards. If no one has a minimum Fortune Hand, the game ends in a tie. We usually start the next game at a multiplier of x2 (or an increment of one over the previous starting multiplier).

2) Yes, you can have more than one 3-cards Fame/Fortune in front of you. This means you can steal multiple times. But like you have mentioned, it may not be a good idea, but there are many strategies to stealing, like card denial, speeding-up/slowing-down multipliers, false hints, etc...and I'm sure many would develop much more

3) You still draft that last one card. It's a signal that drafting stage has ended and you can now end the game or draw/discard.

Thanks again for the questions and happy to hear you are enjoying yourself with the game.

Regards,
Edwin

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Heavenblazer wrote:
eekamouse wrote:
Had a chance to play the game correctly today, and also a chance to play a couple of two player games (surprised that it's as fun with two as more actually).

Couple more questions/clarifications:

1) When the modifier hits x8 or you run out of the deck, the rules stat that the active player must play the 5th card? What if they can't make a hand? And, what if there aren't four stake cards already out when this happens? This came up in one of our two player games, that there was only one stake card when the multiplier hit x8.

2) Can you have more than one Fame/Fortune in front of you? Not that this is a good idea, but it's in the realm of possibility.

3) Re-reading the rules, it states the draft phase ends on the fourth stake card. Do you still have a final draft of one card or no?

Thanks!



Hi Joel,

Yep.I really enjoy 2-players F3 as well. It's a tight battle to outwit the opponent knowing half of his hand and him knowing yours as well. There is also the "chicken" element, as you see the multiplier ticking away .

Will answer your questions here:

1) This is the only exception to the condition that you need to have a Fortune Hand before you can end the game. This is covered in the FAQ page on our website http://www.blackdovegames.com/index-f3-2.html, but I will post it here in BGG later. In this case, there is a possibility that the game ends with less than 5 stake cards. If no one has a minimum Fortune Hand, the game ends in a tie. We usually start the next game at a multiplier of x2 (or an increment of one over the previous starting multiplier).

2) Yes, you can have more than one 3-cards Fame/Fortune in front of you. This means you can steal multiple times. But like you have mentioned, it may not be a good idea, but there are many strategies to stealing, like card denial, speeding-up/slowing-down multipliers, false hints, etc...and I'm sure many would develop much more

3) You still draft that last one card. It's a signal that drafting stage has ended and you can now end the game or draw/discard.

Thanks again for the questions and happy to hear you are enjoying yourself with the game.

Regards,
Edwin



Thanks again! And just to be hyper clear. If they game ends with the 8x multiplier, and there are not at least four stake cards out, but someone CAN make a proper hand, you will still determine a winner at that stage?
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eekamouse wrote:
Heavenblazer wrote:
eekamouse wrote:
Had a chance to play the game correctly today, and also a chance to play a couple of two player games (surprised that it's as fun with two as more actually).

Couple more questions/clarifications:

1) When the modifier hits x8 or you run out of the deck, the rules stat that the active player must play the 5th card? What if they can't make a hand? And, what if there aren't four stake cards already out when this happens? This came up in one of our two player games, that there was only one stake card when the multiplier hit x8.

2) Can you have more than one Fame/Fortune in front of you? Not that this is a good idea, but it's in the realm of possibility.

3) Re-reading the rules, it states the draft phase ends on the fourth stake card. Do you still have a final draft of one card or no?

Thanks!



Hi Joel,

Yep.I really enjoy 2-players F3 as well. It's a tight battle to outwit the opponent knowing half of his hand and him knowing yours as well. There is also the "chicken" element, as you see the multiplier ticking away .

Will answer your questions here:

1) This is the only exception to the condition that you need to have a Fortune Hand before you can end the game. This is covered in the FAQ page on our website http://www.blackdovegames.com/index-f3-2.html, but I will post it here in BGG later. In this case, there is a possibility that the game ends with less than 5 stake cards. If no one has a minimum Fortune Hand, the game ends in a tie. We usually start the next game at a multiplier of x2 (or an increment of one over the previous starting multiplier).

2) Yes, you can have more than one 3-cards Fame/Fortune in front of you. This means you can steal multiple times. But like you have mentioned, it may not be a good idea, but there are many strategies to stealing, like card denial, speeding-up/slowing-down multipliers, false hints, etc...and I'm sure many would develop much more

3) You still draft that last one card. It's a signal that drafting stage has ended and you can now end the game or draw/discard.

Thanks again for the questions and happy to hear you are enjoying yourself with the game.

Regards,
Edwin



Thanks again! And just to be hyper clear. If they game ends with the 8x multiplier, and there are not at least four stake cards out, but someone CAN make a proper hand, you will still determine a winner at that stage?


Hi Joel,

Yes, game still ends and the winner determined as per normal. You just earn less points than if there were more stake cards .

Sorry about the rules on the cards. We decided to have the rules imprinted on the cards as we realized that paper rules in tuck boxes tend to get torn and worn easily. It is admittedly harder to read though . We do have a one pager of the rules available for download on the BGG for those who have problems with flipping the cards for rules.

Yeah, like Poker and Mahjong, F3 looks to be a good staging point for lots of variants. If you have any variant that you played whether intentionally or accidentally , and that you liked, do post them here for others to eplore and enjoy. We will be posting some of our other games and variants that can be played with the F3 cards soon.

Have fun with F3 over the weekend heehee.

Regards,
Edwin
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eekamouse wrote:


So, it's pass or stake and then draft after staking. Then when there are four cards out, only THEN do you start drawing and discarding! And that's when the stealing commences! Whew! Just a little note, we've enjoyed even though we've been playing it totally wrong



Hi Joel,

Yes, that's a very good succinct paragraph of the game play for F3. We have actually tested this variant before (when you pass in the draft stage, you get to draw/discard). We liked it for making the game rules less "fiddly", at least for the passing rules, but we felt that it gave too much incentive to pass and needed extra rules for drafting. Imagine the scenarion with 3 sets of 3-cards Fame/Fortune in play (one card in hand) and you need to draft for more than one card .

Overall, we preferred the current version as the drafting stage was a quick and tactical way to set the stage and hand for the draw/discard phase.

Regards,
Edwin
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