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Subject: Six questions about employees rss

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Andrew Bond
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Following on from my previous list of six questions about buildings... this one's about employees.

Q1. Have I got this right? The Credit Advisor allows you to take 5/10/15/20 money for free each bank phase without placing a pawn. He/she costs 2 in salary and there is no interest to pay on the credit. Does the credit have to be paid back or not? If not, this means you get a net income of 3/8/13/18 each month, for a total net income of 3 x (3 + 8 + 13 + 18) = 126 over the whole game. This seems too easy.

Also, why would you NOT always train the Credit Advisor? For an extra 1 salary (up to 3 from 2) and a one-off costs of 2, your income goes up by 5/10/15/20. Again this is a no-brainer ... unless I am missing something?
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Q2. An untrained Accountant costs 2 in salary but gives an income of 5 (i.e. net income of 3). A trained Accountant costs 3 in salary but gives an income of 7 (i.e. net income of 4). So unless you were in the last 2 months of the game, why would you not automatically train this employee?
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Q3. Can you train an employee at any time? Is there any limit on how many employees you can train?
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Q4. Just to be certain, when the Creative Desinger takes a 'free' Design 'at random' from the board, he/she takes that design from the face-down deck of designs (i.e unseen or random) NOT from the face-up cards on display. [This is would match the answer to one of my questions about buildings.]
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Q5. Market Analyst allows a player to re-order the top 6 designs in the design deck, prior to execution of Area 5. Does that mean that players can take their Designs either from the face-up cards on display OR from the face-down deck?
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Q6. The Trader allows a player to sell a second collection not displayed at a fashion show. Does that second collection have to be 'complete', i.e. contain designs in all the types (i.e. jackets, blouses, dresses, skirts, and trousers - have I got the names right?)? Or can the collection just contain some of thre different design types?
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Thanks in anticipation of answers from more experienced players.




 
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Richard Pardoe
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geocentrix wrote:
Q1. Have I got this right? The Credit Advisor allows you to take 5/10/15/20 money for free each bank phase without placing a pawn.

No, he lets you get 5/10/15/20 in CREDIT which is paid back after the fashion show. The advisor removes the interest requirement for the credit. It is not "free money", but interest-free credit.

geocentrix wrote:
Q2. An untrained Accountant costs 2 in salary but gives an income of 5 (i.e. net income of 3). A trained Accountant costs 3 in salary but gives an income of 7 (i.e. net income of 4). So unless you were in the last 2 months of the game, why would you not automatically train this employee?

You can only train one employee a month, so perhaps there is a a different employee you wish train. But perhaps not so it would seem to make sense if you can afford the costs to do so.

geocentrix wrote:
Q3. Can you train an employee at any time? Is there any limit on how many employees you can train?

No - Training and Development is Phase III during the Preparation months and each player is limited to training ONE employee each T&D phase.

geocentrix wrote:
Q4. Just to be certain, when the Creative Desinger takes a 'free' Design 'at random' from the board, he/she takes that design from the face-down deck of designs (i.e unseen or random)

Correct - random is defined on Page 8 of the rules, under 5. Designer's Field (Paragraph b).

geocentrix wrote:
Q5. Market Analyst allows a player to re-order the top 6 designs in the design deck, prior to execution of Area 5. Does that mean that players can take their Designs either from the face-up cards on display OR from the face-down deck?

No, the market analyst just lets a player who has random selections to seed the face-down cards in their favour.


geocentrix wrote:
Q6. The Trader allows a player to sell a second collection not displayed at a fashion show. Does that second collection have to be 'complete', i.e. contain designs in all the types (i.e. jackets, blouses, dresses, skirts, and trousers - have I got the names right?)? Or can the collection just contain some of thre different design types?

A collection is cards of a similar style (Sports, Boho, Vintage, etc). In other words, cards of the same "colour" (e.g. green for vintage) and/or icon in the lower right pentagon. A collection can have different types (jackets, blouse, dress, skirt) in it. So, yes you can have multiple types, bu the collection sold by the trader must all be of the same style. (Same restriction as collection chosen to be at the fashion show.)
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Andrew Bond
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Richard - thanks for your excellent reply. I clearly didn't understand these things ... your clarifications will save me unwanted confusion. Much appreciated.
 
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Andrew Bond
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Having now played a 3-player game with my wife and 21-year-old son, I now have more questions about employees...

Q7. The rulebook explanation of Sales Representative makes no sense to me at all. Why would you ever go to the Warehouse to buy 1 material of one colour at $2 discount and no Qs, when you can go to the Local Producer and get as many cubes as you like at $2 off a cheaper price (and no Qs)? Likewise, why would you ever go to Import, where the prices are even higher (but at least you can get as many cubes as you like)?

The card has the number 6 on it (in its icon band) - I presume that mean you use this card in Area 6 of the board - which in the Local Producer.
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Q8. A follow on to Q7... should the rule be that you can use the Sales Representative at the Warehouse to take one cube of as many colours as you like (all at $2 discount)? In other words, the card gives a free go at Areas 6, 7, or 8 with a discount on price in exchange for you giving up Qs?
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Q9. What happens if a player has a Spokesman and then ties for 2nd place on the third feature at a show? In a 3-player game, the player in 1st place is awarded 2 Stars and the one in 2nd 1 Star. But if 2nd place is tied, then the tieing players take 3rd place and get 0 Stars. Does Spokesman then give the player with it 2 Stars (i.e. more than if he hadn't tied and the sames as 1st place!)?
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Q10. Does a trained Spokesman provide his benefit (player wins any one chosen feature) at each show location (e.g. Paris, London, Moscow, etc) during a Fashion Show month, or only ONCE in that entire month?
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Q11. Have we scored this right? Red player has 3Q at a fashion show; Yellow has 3Q; and Green has 1Q. Q is the first feature to be scored.

If Red has an untrained Spokesman, he gets 2 (tied for 1st) + 2 (bonus) = 4 stars and Yellow gets 2 stars (tied for 1st).

If Red has a trained Spokesman, he gets 4 (for outright 1st place) + 2 (bonus) = 6 stars and Yellow still gets 2 stars (2nd place).
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Q12. Can a player still use an untrained Freelance Designer even when he doesn't have 2Ts to pay the 'penalty' for changing the style of a design?
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If anyone can answer these additional questions, I'd be most grateful. Thanks.
 
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Andrew Bond
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geocentrix wrote:
Q7. The rulebook explanation of Sales Representative makes no sense to me at all...


I have just found the author's answer to this in a previous thread. The rulebook is wrong and the card is right.

trzewik wrote:
Sales Representative lets you buy from Local manufacturer. Rulebook has a mistake there. Card icon is ok


And,

geocentrix wrote:
Q8. A follow on to Q7...


My question 8 is now irrelevant.
 
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Andrew Bond
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RPardoe wrote:
A collection can have different types (jackets, blouse, dress, skirt) in it


As a follow up (now that we have played the game), can a Collection have designs of the SAME type in it (e.g. 2 Boho trousers and a Boho skirt) or it limited to a maximum of one of each type (i.e. jacket, blouse, dress, skirt, trousers - for a maximum of 5)?
 
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Andrew Bond
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Re: [Six] 14 questions about employees
Q13. Can the Stars available on 'Model (Face of the Company)' be used with Retail Outlet to earn income during maintenance phase? I presume NO.
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Q14. Are the Stars available on 'Model (Face of the Company)' used to increase the value of designs sold after a Fashion Show? I presume YES.
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If my answers above are both right, we played this completely wrong last night!
 
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Dana Huyler
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Quote:
Q13. Can the Stars available on 'Model (Face of the Company)' be used with Retail Outlet to earn income during maintenance phase? I presume NO.
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Q14. Are the Stars available on 'Model (Face of the Company)' used to increase the value of designs sold after a Fashion Show? I presume YES.



You are somewhat correct, You can NOT count stars from the the Model (Face of the Company) or the "For TV appearances" contract to earn income from the Retail Outlet when you immedately purchase those particular cards. Once you have a fashion show, Stars from Model (Face of the Company) and the "For TV appearances" contract will be counted towards the stars that you got from each fashion show and WILL be considered for Retail Outlet for upkeep on the month of the fashion show and the next two months. Stars gained from these cards count as stars from the "rankings" portion of fashion shows.



Example from the start of a new game:

Month 1 - You purchase Model (Face of the Company). You have 4 stars that will be applied for the next fashion show.

Month 2 - You purchase Retail Outlet. The Retail Outlet counts zero stars "from your last fashion show". You will not have any stars until month 3, when you have the first fashion show of the game.

Month 3 - You get 3 stars from the fashion show rankings, also, you have Model (Face of the Company) which grants you 4 extra stars. You are considered to have 7 stars when selling your designs from the fashion show. During maintenance the Retail Outlet counts 7 stars "from the last fashion show".

Month 4 - You pick up "For TV appearances" contract, which nets you 4 stars that will be applied for the next fashion show. During maintenance The Retail Outlet counts 7 stars "from the last fashion show" and does NOT count the 4 stars from the "For TV appearances".

Month 5 - Stuff happens. During maintenance the Retail Outlet counts 7 stars "from the last fashion show" and does NOT count the 4 stars from the "For TV appearances".

Month 6 - Before the fashion show, you convert the 7 stars you had from the Month 3 Fashion show into golden dollars. At this month's fashion show, you were unlucky and gain zero stars from the rankings. Since you have Model (Face of the Company) AND "For TV appearances" contract you add to your zero stars from the rankings the 4 stars from Model (Face of the Company) and 4 from the contract. You are considered to have 8 stars when selling your designs from the fashion show. During maintenance the Retail Outlet counts these 8 stars "from the last fashion show". You also discard the "For TV appearances" contract at this point.

Month 7 - Stuff happens. During maintenance the Retail Outlet counts these 8 stars "from the last fashion show".


Note: This is my interpretation of the rules, based on errata and comments on BGG.
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Andrew Bond
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Skeeve wrote:
You are somewhat correct, You can NOT count stars from the the Model (Face of the Company) or the "For TV appearances" contract to earn income from the Retail Outlet when you immedately purchase those particular cards. Once you have a fashion show, [they] will be counted... This is my interpretation of the rules, based on errata and comments on BGG.


Wow! I hadn't thought it through that way. Your interpretation certainly sounds right ... but will be tricky to get right on the night!

I suppose you must leave the stars on the card when obtained and only move them to the player's factory board when awarded at the show. Then Retail Outlet only gives you income from what's on your factory board.

Thanks for the detailed example - that has made it very clear.
 
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Andrew Bond
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Thanks to everyone who has answered these questions here (or elsewhere on BGG). Of my long list of questions, I now only have the following outstanding... (sorry if these appear to ask the same question - I thought when I wrote them that there were subtle differences between them),

Q9. What happens if a player has a Spokesman and then ties for 2nd place on the third feature at a show? In a 3-player game, the player in 1st place is awarded 2 Stars and the one in 2nd 1 Star. But if 2nd place is tied, then the tieing players take 3rd place and get 0 Stars. Does Spokesman then give the player with it 2 Stars (i.e. more than if he hadn't tied and the sames as 1st place!)?
---

Q10. Does a trained Spokesman provide his benefit (player wins any one chosen feature) at each show location (e.g. Paris, London, Moscow, etc) during a Fashion Show month, or only ONCE in that entire month?
--

Q11. Have we scored this right? Red player has 3Q at a fashion show; Yellow has 3Q; and Green has 1Q. Q is the first feature to be scored.

If Red has an untrained Spokesman, he gets 2 (tied for 1st) + 2 (bonus) = 4 stars and Yellow gets 2 stars (tied for 1st).

If Red has a trained Spokesman, he gets 4 (for outright 1st place) + 2 (bonus) = 6 stars and Yellow still gets 2 stars (2nd place).
---

Q12. Can a player still use an untrained Freelance Designer even when he doesn't have 2Ts to pay the 'penalty' for changing the style of a design?

Thanks in anticipation.
 
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Dana Huyler
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All these answers are from my interpretation of the rules.

geocentrix wrote:
Q9. What happens if a player has a Spokesman and then ties for 2nd place on the third feature at a show? In a 3-player game, the player in 1st place is awarded 2 Stars and the one in 2nd 1 Star. But if 2nd place is tied, then the tieing players take 3rd place and get 0 Stars. Does Spokesman then give the player with it 2 Stars (i.e. more than if he hadn't tied and the sames as 1st place!)?


Yes, the two star bonus from the Spokesman for tying can be worth more than the award that would of been given for not tying. This would be the case when tying for second place would be worth just 1 star.

This can mean that breaking the tie with the trained Spokesman tie-breaking ability will net you less stars in certain situations.

geocentrix wrote:
Q10. Does a trained Spokesman provide his benefit (player wins any one chosen feature) at each show location (e.g. Paris, London, Moscow, etc) during a Fashion Show month, or only ONCE in that entire month?


Once per Fashion Show Month, and not once per city.

geocentrix wrote:
Q11. Have we scored this right? Red player has 3Q at a fashion show; Yellow has 3Q; and Green has 1Q. Q is the first feature to be scored.

If Red has an untrained Spokesman, he gets 2 (tied for 1st) + 2 (bonus) = 4 stars and Yellow gets 2 stars (tied for 1st).

If Red has a trained Spokesman, he gets 4 (for outright 1st place) + 2 (bonus) = 6 stars and Yellow still gets 2 stars (2nd place).


No. Your first example is correct, but the second is incorrect. In the second example, if Red breaks the tie with a tie breaking ability, that player will not get the bonus for being in a tie. Red will get 4 stars (first place) and Yellow will get 2 stars (second place).

geocentrix wrote:
Q12. Can a player still use an untrained Freelance Designer even when he doesn't have 2Ts to pay the 'penalty' for changing the style of a design?


Yes, You can use the untrained Freelance Designer when you do not have 2 Trend tokens during that Fashion Show in which you activated the Freelance Designer. You discard down to zero if you have two or less.

The Young Designer card and the Superstar (Model) also force you to discard tokens. You will discard all that you have of the type of token if you have less than the amount you have to discard.
 
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Andrew Bond
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Skeeve wrote:
All these answers are from my interpretation of the rules


How many plays have you chalked up to get to this level of knowledge?

Impressive. Thanks.
 
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Dana Huyler
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Seven times now. I've played multiple times with people new to the game so we have had to look at the rules in depth and figure out what we were doing wrong and a few times with people who have played at least once.
 
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Andrew Bond
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Skeeve wrote:
Seven times now. I've played multiple times with people new to the game so we have had to look at the rules in depth and figure out what we were doing wrong and a few times with people who have played at least once.


Have all those games been 'full length', i.e. over the 12 months?

A complaint from my first and only game so far was the length - particularly since we were learning. When I introduce this to my games club, I'm wondering whether a shortened variant might be a good idea?

Have you had any experience playing a 9-month version? Is it better to leave out October-December or January-March?

How about a 6-month version? Would April-September work?
 
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Dana Huyler
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One game was cut short, but that was due to something interrupting us. All other games have been the full length.

I've never tried a shorter game, and I don't know how it would work considering the fact that you would be missing out the cards from the two preparation months.

The people I've played with it seem to grok the game after the second fashion show, so maybe just do a training game with the first six months (Jan-June), and after that, people would of gotten the hang of the mechanics. Then a detailed explanation of the contracts, buildings, and employees will make more sense and the next game will go significantly easier, and faster.
 
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