James Agricola
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QUESTION:
Minor Improvement (Manure) - Prerequisite of 2 animals: In order to use the card's ability does it have to be met on an ongoing basis or only when brought into play?

Hi everyone,

I'm new to the forum (and to Agricola). I've searched the rules forum for both "manure" and "Pre" (for prerequisites) and didn't find the answer. Was hoping someone here who's played a little more might have some thoughts. Thanks everyone in advance for your help.

It is in regards to the minor improvement card: "Manure". The top-left prerequisite states "2 Animals". The rules book on page 7 ("Improvement Cards") reads: "Some Minor Improvements require the player to have a prerequisite... In order to play these cards, the player must have the required goods, tiles or cards on the table in front of him or her".

It's clear to me that you need to have at least 2 animals to bring the card into play. However, it's unclear whether you can continue to use the card's effects if, after bringing the card into play, you cease to have 2 animals in play (ie: slaughtered or let free).

So, there are 2 solutions, which one is correct?

SOLUTION #1: "THE MANURE RUNETH OVER"
The prerequisite of 2 animals is only needed to bring the card into play. If you later cease to have at least 2 animals, you can still use the card's ability. This represents you saving up a load of manure from the initial 2 animals.

SOLUTION #2: "MANURE DOESN'T GROW ON TREES"
When you cease to have at least 2 animals, the manure ability can no longer be used (ie: you cannot take 1 grain or vegetable from each of your fields and place it in your personal supply).

My guess would have been solution #1 (based on game mechanics), but solution #2 would make more sense if you imagined yourself as a farmer in the world of Agricola.

Thanks,
Not a farmer in Agricola, but trying hard
 
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Keng Leong Yeo
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You only need to meet the pre-requisites when you play the minor improvement. In your example, you still enjoy the card's ability if you had played it earlier but no longer have 2 or more animals.
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James Agricola
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Thanks Keng Leong and Henrik for the super-speedy reply.

Also, thanks for the reference. You guys are awesome.
 
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Benjamin Kerenza
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Thumb for the reference
 
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chessjamestang wrote:

I'm new to the forum (and to Agricola). I've searched the rules forum for both "manure"


I'm sure you can find plenty.devil
 
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Derakon Derakon
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Some minors thematically would make sense to have "cancellation rules", like the Manure, but some wouldn't. For example, the Outhouse has as a pre-requisite that at least one other player must have fewer than 2 occupations played. It doesn't make sense for the outhouse suddenly go away if that player then played a second occupation.

Given that there can't be a universal rule that encompasses both situations, I would assume that any improvement that has a "cancellation rule" would say so in the description for the card. Off the top of my head I can't think of any cards that do this though.
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Chris Deotte
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Derakon wrote:
Some minors thematically would make sense to have "cancellation rules", like the Manure, but some wouldn't. For example, the Outhouse has as a pre-requisite that at least one other player must have fewer than 2 occupations played. It doesn't make sense for the outhouse suddenly go away if that player then played a second occupation.

Given that there can't be a universal rule that encompasses both situations, I would assume that any improvement that has a "cancellation rule" would say so in the description for the card. Off the top of my head I can't think of any cards that do this though.


Here is an example of a card where you need to "continually have animals" to receive the benefit:

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Geoff Burkman
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And, for that matter, wouldn't cards like the Loom count?
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Matt Shields
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MisterG wrote:
And, for that matter, wouldn't cards like the Loom count?


Sure. But the distinction (and I'm sure you know this, but for the benefit of others...) is between a prerequisite to PLAY a card, and some other requirement for a card to take effect.

The prerequisite - in the upper left corner of the card - only ever matters when the card is put into play. I'm pretty sure there are no exceptions to this. Prereqs only tell you if you can legally play a card from your hand to the table. They do not tell you anything about USING the card.

However, there are lots of minor improvements (and some occs) that say that if you have one thing, then you can do another thing. But this will always be explained in the card text, and doesn't have anything to do with the prerequisite.

Straw Thatched Roof is another good example of this. You have to have 3 grain fields to PLAY the card, but once it's in play, you no longer care about having grain fields. The card is in play, so you get its benefit, regardless of whether you still have grain fields.
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