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Subject: Missile Flight Time rss

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Forrest & Ryan Driskel
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I don't know which side I am on (Missiles overpowered?) because I have been the one building the missile ships. I've have awfully darn good luck with them, only having one real scare.

One way to make missiles a bit more thematic and possibly more balanced would be to give them a flight time. Rather than hitting immediately, the missile damage would applied at a later point in the fight (regardless of if the firing ship was still in the hex).

Option 1: Missiles hit when it is the firing ship's turn in the queue. This means high initiative ships get one/two shots at missile ships instead of zero/one.

Option 2: Missiles hit AFTER the firing ship's turn in the queue. This would force a missile ship to wait until the next battle round to decide whether to retreat or stay.

Option 3: Missiles have an initiative = ship's drive. This gives a reason to actually put a better source/drive on a missile ship. Starbases' missiles would hit last.
 
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Jeremy Diachuk
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I think the best option would be #1, if you wanted to implement one of these. I already like having drive upgrades on missile ships so they can move more quickly into enemy space, personally. With a 6 Source, you can get a +3 computer and a 2-move Drive and three sets of missiles onto a cruiser, which is very potent.
 
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Anthony S
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Missiles should never be quicker to hit than cannons on a ship with good computers and drives.
Therefore, option #3 is the best (except that missiles are assumed to have a maximum of 1 drive and 1 computer of the best quality found on the firing ship).
Missiles do not need the firing ship to complete their flight path (in case the launching ship is destroyed); they always attack based on the drive+computer initiative.
 
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Purple Paladin

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Only 2 games so far. First one we had no idea the difference between missles/cannons. Second one, missiles did not come out till turn 8, so nobody bothered to get them.

But from what I've read, can missles be a semi-exploit? I've seen pictures with ships with nothing but missles and two +2 computers. Also read, if they miss, you just retreat and save most your ships?


 
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Jeremy Diachuk
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That means option #1, Anthony. Option #3 is only using the Drives, not using the computer's initiative or the ship's initiative, and you seem to imply you'd use computer bonus initiative as well...
 
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Purple Paladin

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Seems to me if your really going to make a variant to "balance" this (IF it reallys needs one), you could go along with the reality based rules Eclipse has: A Ships engines subtract from a shields chance to hit the same as shields reduce direct fire weapons.

Most every space movie I've seen "dodges" or "outruns" missles.
 
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Forrest & Ryan Driskel
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This was mostly just an idea that came to me in the shower

I'm going to do some actual testing to 1.) see if missiles really are as powerful as I feel they are and 2.) see if they are any better balanced with these ideas.
 
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Peter Gousis
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A idea that I am going to try on my next game is to make each missile -1 initiative and they only attack during your first turn (during your initiative, not at the beginning of combat). This would make missile ships attack later in the round the more missile bays they put on their ship. So basicly the same as option 1, but with a little tweak to make people think about adding that 2nd or 3rd missile to their ship. Even makes adding 1 a more interesting decision as there is a cost besides just the spot.
 
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Forrest & Ryan Driskel
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I don't think missiles would be much good if you had to wait until your initiative to fire them (whereas in my initial suggestion here you fire them at combat start but they don't hit until your initiative).

I'm currently running a simulation to try to get some hard numbers on missiles. Hopefully I don't ruin the game for myself! I'll post them here in a spoiler after a bit of a post-NYE vacation.
 
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Peter Gousis
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Why wouldn't they be good? The have 2 dice and do 2 damage each for no energy. They would fire at the same time as every other weapon, the only difference is that they only fire once. If they were underpowered and didn't kill that many things with their one attack then we wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place. Basicaly you are still getting 2 rounds of attack (2 dice each missile bay) for no energy. Compare this to the Plasma Cannon which costs 2 Energy and the Missiles are still better unless the combat goes at least 3 rounds (which in my experience doesn't happen after the big guns start coming out).

I didn't realize that you wanted to still roll the attack at the beginning of the round. I think this would just complicate things for a game that runs so smoothly, but maybe I am crazy.
 
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Forrest & Ryan Driskel
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I don't want to roll the attack at the beginning of combat. I think you don't quite understand what i am saying. I can clarify later.
 
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