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Subject: First game of Carentan rss

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Tom Myers
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I played my first game of Carentan tonight and was able to see an automatic weapon used effectively for the first time. The Americans had orders to plant demo in a farmhouse and the Germans had a squad with orders to defend the farm. The Americans had a 30 cal team and a bar and 3 riflemen. The Germans had a MG42 and a 8 man squad supporting it. The Americans moved the 30 cal out on the left flank behind a hedgerow to provide covering fire. The rest of the Americans moved up close to the farmhouse and took cover in the nearby graveyard behind a stone fence.

The Americans began firing and were able to kill 6 of the Germans without any losses. Then a German named Friedman with a MP40 sprayed the Americans with automatic fire. He was able to get 2 hit+ in a row pinning two Americans and killing one. Sgt. Harrison was able to rally his men though and killed all but one of the Germans which is the point that I decided that he would probably run and I ended the game.

A few things I noticed from this game:

1. The 30 cal and Bar were not effective at all in this battle. The Americans with the M1s did all the killing. Same thing with the MG42.
All the American fire at first was directed at the MG and he was killed before he could fire (Wouldn't someone else pick it up or were they scared after what happened to the gunner) maybe there should be some rules for important weapons to be able to be picked up?

2. The morale thing, I was watching the Germans in this farmhouse get picked off one by one without any effect to the morale. The machinegun and then the Squad Leader and then each private, seems at some point they would have broken.

3. Despite the MGs being useless the MP40 worked great. Maybe the whole thing was just luck of the draw.

4. Smoke Grenades would be useful in some of these scenarios.

It was a fun game!
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Jeff Billings
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Re: First game of Caretan
Thoamas wrote:
I played my first game of Caretan tonight and was able to see an automatic weapon used effectively for the first time. The Americans had orders to plant demo in a farmhouse and the Germans had a squad with orders to defend the farm. The Americans had a 30 cal team and a bar and 3 riflemen. The Germans had a MG42 and a 8 man squad supporting it. The Americans moved the 30 cal out on the left flank behind a hedgerow to provide covering fire. The rest of the Americans moved up close to the farmhouse and took cover in the nearby graveyard behind a stone fence.

The Americans began a firing and were able to kill 6 of the Germans without any losses. Then a German named Friedman with a MP40 sprayed the Americans with automatic fire. He was able to get 2 hit+ in a row pinning all two Americans and killing one. Sgt. Harrison was able to rally his men though and killed all but one of the Germans which is the point that I decided that he would probably run and I ended the game.

A few things I noticed from this game:

1. The 30 cal and Bar were not effective at all in this battle. The Americans with the M1s did all the killing. Same thing with the MG42.
All the American fire at first was directed at the MG and he was killed before he could fire (Wouldn't someone else pick it up or were they scared after what happened to the gunner) maybe there should be some rules for important weapons to be able to be picked up?


Equipment and Tactics will have the ability for a TEAM member to use the MGs if the gunner is killed.

Thoamas wrote:
2. The morale thing, I was watching the Germans in this farmhouse get picked off one by one without any effect to the morale. The machinegun and then the Squad Leader and then each private, seems at some point they would have broken.


Yep, Equipment and Tactics will introduce the TEAM and morale associated with the TEAM.

Thoamas wrote:
3. Despite the MGs being useless the MP40 worked great. Maybe the whole thing was just luck of the draw.


The MG Assistant in am MG TEAM will be able to SHOOT the MG along with the gunner.

Thoamas wrote:
4. Smoke Grenades would be useful in some of these scenarios.


Equipment and Tactics has them.

Thoamas wrote:
It was a fun game!
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Tim McCormley
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Thoamas wrote:

1. The 30 cal and Bar were not effective at all in this battle. The Americans with the M1s did all the killing. Same thing with the MG42.
All the American fire at first was directed at the MG and he was killed before he could fire (Wouldn't someone else pick it up or were they scared after what happened to the gunner) maybe there should be some rules for important weapons to be able to be picked up?

Check out "Recovering Equipment" in the Road To Carentan Scenario Rules & Notes.

It doesn't seem very easy to do...

Tim
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Rex Gator
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Nice little write up. I wanted to respond to your morale comment. I will preface by saying I am not a designer or developer of this game and any thing I say is just conjecture.

The way I see it the "morale" effect in this game is the PIN marker. Concepts of broken and or routed really are concepts that come from games with larger unit and time scale. In a game like Combat Commander one Fire order causing a broken result might represent the bulk of an SMG battle. That broken/ rout result probably reflects the casualties and pin effects of most of your battle.

As another aside, if you go look at the design notes and/or posts by Jim Krohn for Band of Brothers: Screaming Eagles he suggests his research did not support the use of smoke grenades as a typical tool for tactical engagements. One of the places where Combat Commander can be a little too jarring for me is the amount of smoke that can get bandied about.
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Kevin Duke
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Game scale is an adjustment for those who have played a lot of other tactical games.

When you factor that, in Squad Leader terms, a normal sized SMG game would amount to one counter on each side, in a space maybe 2 hexes by three hexes, you may see the very different things going on here (and why adding tanks is a real challenge.)
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JoeyNine
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When it comes to automatics, I have found it is all about getting your guy into close range, and that means giving him plenty of cover and hide actions to protect him. But when it works, it feels great. Just had my first successful hit+ a few days ago. The second card had a hit but sadly it zipped!
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Rex Gator
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Jeff Billings wrote:
Thoamas wrote:
I played my first game of Caretan tonight and was able to see an automatic weapon used effectively for the first time. The Americans had orders to plant demo in a farmhouse and the Germans had a squad with orders to defend the farm. The Americans had a 30 cal team and a bar and 3 riflemen. The Germans had a MG42 and a 8 man squad supporting it. The Americans moved the 30 cal out on the left flank behind a hedgerow to provide covering fire. The rest of the Americans moved up close to the farmhouse and took cover in the nearby graveyard behind a stone fence.

The Americans began a firing and were able to kill 6 of the Germans without any losses. Then a German named Friedman with a MP40 sprayed the Americans with automatic fire. He was able to get 2 hit+ in a row pinning all two Americans and killing one. Sgt. Harrison was able to rally his men though and killed all but one of the Germans which is the point that I decided that he would probably run and I ended the game.

A few things I noticed from this game:

1. The 30 cal and Bar were not effective at all in this battle. The Americans with the M1s did all the killing. Same thing with the MG42.
All the American fire at first was directed at the MG and he was killed before he could fire (Wouldn't someone else pick it up or were they scared after what happened to the gunner) maybe there should be some rules for important weapons to be able to be picked up?


Equipment and Tactics will have the ability for a TEAM member to use the MGs if the gunner is killed.

Thoamas wrote:
2. The morale thing, I was watching the Germans in this farmhouse get picked off one by one without any effect to the morale. The machinegun and then the Squad Leader and then each private, seems at some point they would have broken.


Yep, Equipment and Tactics will introduce the TEAM and morale associated with the TEAM.

Thoamas wrote:
3. Despite the MGs being useless the MP40 worked great. Maybe the whole thing was just luck of the draw.


The MG Assistant in am MG TEAM will be able to SHOOT the MG along with the gunner.

Thoamas wrote:
4. Smoke Grenades would be useful in some of these scenarios.


Equipment and Tactics has them.

Thoamas wrote:
It was a fun game!


Jeff this sounds really cool. Before Kevin can get to you with a rolled up newspaper can you give us a hint when we might see these additions to the game?
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Tom Myers
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Wow Jeff, sounds like you have a lot of stuff covered in Equipment and Tactics. I look forward to getting my hands on it.
 
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Tom Myers
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rexgator wrote:
Nice little write up. I wanted to respond to your morale comment. I will preface by saying I am not a designer or developer of this game and any thing I say is just conjecture.

Rex, thanks for your comments, what I am really looking at was the fact that pin only effects the soldier who receives the result. If you have a 8 man squad in a house within sight of each other and they keep getting picked off, it will start, imho, causing the rest of the soldiers to start ducking or running. Just my opinion. I know there is a fine line where you keep adding things and a game gets to heavy, so I know Jeff has to balance that.

As another aside, if you go look at the design notes and/or posts by Jim Krohn for Band of Brothers: Screaming Eagles he suggests his research did not support the use of smoke grenades as a typical tool for tactical engagements. One of the places where Combat Commander can be a little too jarring for me is the amount of smoke that can get bandied about.


Rex, thanks for your comments, what I am really looking at was the fact that pin only effects the soldier who receives the result. If you have a 8 man squad in a house within sight of each other and they keep getting picked off, it will start, imho, causing the rest of the soldiers to start ducking or running. Just my opinion. I know there is a fine line where you keep adding things and a game gets to heavy, so I know Jeff has to balance that.

As far as smoke goes, we used a lot of it when I was in the 82nd, but of course that was in the 80s and I don't remember ever reading a WW2 account where they mentioned using it. It is just something I was used to
Not sure how much they used it in WW2
 
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Tom Myers
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armor_11 wrote:
Thoamas wrote:

1. The 30 cal and Bar were not effective at all in this battle. The Americans with the M1s did all the killing. Same thing with the MG42.
All the American fire at first was directed at the MG and he was killed before he could fire (Wouldn't someone else pick it up or were they scared after what happened to the gunner) maybe there should be some rules for important weapons to be able to be picked up?

Check out "Recovering Equipment" in the Road To Carentan Scenario Rules & Notes.

It doesn't seem very easy to do...

Tim


Thanks Tim, and btw your avatar creeps me out. Makes me think I am in LOTR.
 
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Rex Gator
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Thoamas wrote:
rexgator wrote:
Nice little write up. I wanted to respond to your morale comment. I will preface by saying I am not a designer or developer of this game and any thing I say is just conjecture.

Rex, thanks for your comments, what I am really looking at was the fact that pin only effects the soldier who receives the result. If you have a 8 man squad in a house within sight of each other and they keep getting picked off, it will start, imho, causing the rest of the soldiers to start ducking or running. Just my opinion. I know there is a fine line where you keep adding things and a game gets to heavy, so I know Jeff has to balance that.

As another aside, if you go look at the design notes and/or posts by Jim Krohn for Band of Brothers: Screaming Eagles he suggests his research did not support the use of smoke grenades as a typical tool for tactical engagements. One of the places where Combat Commander can be a little too jarring for me is the amount of smoke that can get bandied about.


Rex, thanks for your comments, what I am really looking at was the fact that pin only effects the soldier who receives the result. If you have a 8 man squad in a house within sight of each other and they keep getting picked off, it will start, imho, causing the rest of the soldiers to start ducking or running. Just my opinion. I know there is a fine line where you keep adding things and a game gets to heavy, so I know Jeff has to balance that.

As far as smoke goes, we used a lot of it when I was in the 82nd, but of course that was in the 80s and I don't remember ever reading a WW2 account where they mentioned using it. It is just something I was used to
Not sure how much they used it in WW2


Good point on morale Tom and it seems one that Jeff has in his mind as well. Kevin must have gotten to Jeff and beat him silly before he could give away when we will see these new features.

I do not recall much discussion of smoke grenades as LOS obstructers in my WWII reading either. I do recall colored smoke for marking targets and artillery smoke for set piece assaults but not so much as an "on call" asset.
 
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Michael Billings
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rexgator wrote:
Thoamas wrote:
rexgator wrote:
Nice little write up. I wanted to respond to your morale comment. I will preface by saying I am not a designer or developer of this game and any thing I say is just conjecture.

Rex, thanks for your comments, what I am really looking at was the fact that pin only effects the soldier who receives the result. If you have a 8 man squad in a house within sight of each other and they keep getting picked off, it will start, imho, causing the rest of the soldiers to start ducking or running. Just my opinion. I know there is a fine line where you keep adding things and a game gets to heavy, so I know Jeff has to balance that.

As another aside, if you go look at the design notes and/or posts by Jim Krohn for Band of Brothers: Screaming Eagles he suggests his research did not support the use of smoke grenades as a typical tool for tactical engagements. One of the places where Combat Commander can be a little too jarring for me is the amount of smoke that can get bandied about.


Rex, thanks for your comments, what I am really looking at was the fact that pin only effects the soldier who receives the result. If you have a 8 man squad in a house within sight of each other and they keep getting picked off, it will start, imho, causing the rest of the soldiers to start ducking or running. Just my opinion. I know there is a fine line where you keep adding things and a game gets to heavy, so I know Jeff has to balance that.

As far as smoke goes, we used a lot of it when I was in the 82nd, but of course that was in the 80s and I don't remember ever reading a WW2 account where they mentioned using it. It is just something I was used to
Not sure how much they used it in WW2


Good point on morale Tom and it seems one that Jeff has in his mind as well. Kevin must have gotten to Jeff and beat him silly before he could give away when we will see these new features.

I do not recall much discussion of smoke grenades as LOS obstructers in my WWII reading either. I do recall colored smoke for marking targets and artillery smoke for set piece assaults but not so much as an "on call" asset.


Using Smoke has two very different effects when using it in real life. While it is good to block LOS and help soldiers stay in cover, it has the issue that when soldiers move through it they create a silhouette against the smokey background that can be easily picked off.

Also, infantry level tactical smoke did not affect the battlefield in the same way as artillery smoke.
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Tom Myers
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Moving through smoke is not very effective. You tend to slow down and come out of the smoke disoriented. I remember using it mostly in urban terrain to cross streets. You had to know which way the wind was blowing and throw it so it would block the enemy los. We usually would throw it a few feet away towards the enemy. Now that I think back, it was tricky to use. Sometimes we would use cs gas also. As far as grenades go, it would be useful for short dashes, but as Sergeants doesn't have op fire yet, that is really a nonissue. The one time I remember it being really effective was when it was fired by arty as we did a river crossing in small boats. Reminded me of that scene from a Bridge too Far.

In game terms, now that I think about it, it would be tricky to use effectively.
 
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Jerry Tresman
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Thoamas wrote:


Thanks Tim, and btw your avatar creeps me out. Makes me think I am in LOTR.


Now there is an idea LOTR based on the SMG system.
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Tom Myers
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One more thing I wanted to add. I had not been able to get in a game of SMG for a while now, but when I started playing I was surprised how easy it was to pick right back up again. With all the information on the tiles and cards, the play went very smooth. I think I only checked the rulebook twice through the whole game.
 
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Allen Barton
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Yes, you have to love the simple and quick play. NO CHARTS!
 
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