Giorgio Spadaro
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Hi. In our last game we noticed the advanced tie-break rule probably doesn't work anymore. Culture track does count much more than techs or coins on the score (21 vs 15) and that was somehow balanced in the core game where culture was heavily underpowered. In Fame and Fortune culture is far more stronger, making the tie-break unbalanced towards non culture players.

I want to outline what happened in our last game:
In the 10th turn, Russians discover Space Flight at the Start of Turn because of Public education Investments, while Romans reach the end of culture track during City Management. At the tie-break Romans scored 21 points for culture + 6 coins + 11 techs = 38 points. Russians scored 3 culture + 4 coins + 17 techs = 24 points.

I can't imagine how a tie-break could be won by non culture players.
We're going to come back to the original scoring way.
What do you think about that?
 
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Sam Butler
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I seem to recall the basic tie-breaker rewarded turn order a bit too much.

Perhaps, since it seems like all types of victory are more viable, instead you should do a percentile-based tiebreaker? (I have too little experience with the expansion to know if this is necessary, but just a thought from the peanut gallery.)

It is easy to compare Tech and Coin...both require 15 units (do not count extra techs beyond the minimum per level required), so no change required in the counting. Culture is 6 longer. So, somewhere you need to drop 6 points. Not counting the last 2 spaces per age, perhaps?

Again, this is just a random thought from reading your post from the peanut gallery, I do not have enough experience with the expansion to know if this is even necessary. But, that is one possible solution instead of going back to fate of turn order.

Alternatively, and more simply, you could have the tiebreaker be the progress on the one remaining peaceful victory condition (in your example, economic). This is simpler than either the FAQ base game tiebreaker or the above modification.
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Giorgio Spadaro
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Next time we'll implement a new way for tie-break scoring: now techs will score as many points as their level is:

A 1st level tech scores 1 point, a 2nd level tech scores 2 points and so on.

As considering last game Romans would have achieved 20 points for techs (6x 1st level + 4 x 2nd level + 2 x 3rd level) while Russians would have scored 38 points (6x 1st level, 5x 2nd level, 3x 3rd level, 2x 4th level and the 5th level Space Flight technology). Final score would have been 47 to 45 for Romans (they would have won anyway but it's definately more balanced)
 
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Pawel Bulacz
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It's not that easy to win with culture - they deserve that win.
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Ian Kelly
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jediknight83 wrote:
Next time we'll implement a new way for tie-break scoring: now techs will score as many points as their level is:

A 1st level tech scores 1 point, a 2nd level tech scores 2 points and so on.


Doesn't that just make the tie-breaker favor tech instead of culture, while screwing economic wins even more? Since now there are 35 points available for tech, while still only 21 for culture and 15 for coins.
 
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Ian Kelly
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pabula wrote:
It's not that easy to win with culture - they deserve that win.


It seems to be a lot easier to win with culture in the expansion.
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Giorgio Spadaro
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pabula wrote:
It's not that easy to win with culture - they deserve that win.


Not anymore, with the expansion culture has been heavily improved and powered.

Peristarkawan wrote:
jediknight83 wrote:
Next time we'll implement a new way for tie-break scoring: now techs will score as many points as their level is:

A 1st level tech scores 1 point, a 2nd level tech scores 2 points and so on.


Doesn't that just make the tie-breaker favor tech instead of culture, while screwing economic wins even more? Since now there are 35 points available for tech, while still only 21 for culture and 15 for coins.


I don't think so, because a culture player is going to research most of the times at the end of the turn, as a tech player. At the end of the game a tech player should have 4,5 techs more than a culture player. The great unbalance is on the culture track, where a culture player has scored 21 points and a tech player less than 7.

Btw I have tried to implement that in our last game, and I want to outline that it was a 4p game with all experienced players. Romans who went and won by culture scored 20 points with techs, Russians 38. Total score (culture+coins+techs) was 47 to 45 for Romans. They would have won anyway but it's far more balanced in this way.
I think it could work.



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Ricardo Donoso
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RIBEIRÃO PRETO
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Culture was lame, now it is an all-time-allstar.

They need to think a little more about balancing, the game was unbalanced because culture was not worthy, now it is unbalanced because you MUST devote to culture.
 
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Geert Vinaskov
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rdonoso wrote:
Culture was lame, now it is an all-time-allstar.

They need to think a little more about balancing, the game was unbalanced because culture was not worthy, now it is unbalanced because you MUST devote to culture.
When playing without the great person deck, but with the investments, I don't think Culture is over/underpowered.
 
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Ricardo Donoso
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rdonoso wrote:
Culture was lame, now it is an all-time-allstar.

They need to think a little more about balancing, the game was unbalanced because culture was not worthy, now it is unbalanced because you MUST devote to culture.


After some plays of FaF i changed my mind.

We play with the full expansion, and culture is not bigger then military.

I think the only tweak I would agree is: Metalcasting doesn´t have a COIN, Railroad DOES have a COIN.

This would mean I would actually SEE someone using railroad.
 
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