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Subject: Wargame Publisher Loyalty rss

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Jim Ransom
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Since getting back into wargaming after a too-long hiatus, I noticed that I have tended to gravitate to titles from GMT. Not sure exactly why -- mostly because the subject matter appealed to me and the games are (for the most part) well crafted. Or could it be I was drawn in by slick advertising?

I have picked up a few games from Compass Games (Silent War/IJN & Steel Wolves), from Avalanche Press (2WWAS series), and one each from Decision Games (DDAOB), DVG (U-Boat Leader), and MMP (Devil's Cauldron). But those 10 games compare with over 30 from GMT.

Back in the day, I had a lot of allegiance to Avalon Hill games, and played them almost exclusively. No doubt I missed out on some great games from SPI, GDW, and others.

So the question is, is this a wargaming rut? Am I unnecessarily limiting myself? Can you become too loyal to one brand, and like a devoted Miller Lite drinker, miss out on the Samuel Adams Boston Lager?

What do you think?
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Bill Lawson
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I encourage you to branch out. There are many companies publishing lots of good games! If you have to stick with one though GMT Games
is a great company and this site is full of there devoted fans!

Multi-Man Publishing is another fine company (my personal favorite)
Hexasim is a newer French company thats putting out some beauties!

I'll leave the rest for the other companies fans!
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Jim Ransom
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Loyalty that goes both ways? What a concept. Would be nice to also get a feel for which companies show good loyalty to their customers.
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Jason Maxwell
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I find myself quite loyal to GMT as well, even to the point of picking up games on subjects I'm only casually interested in because of my faith in GMT's quality.

That's not to say I ignore other publishers but I really only look at their games in my area of interest, early American wars (F&I, Rev, 1812) or solitaire games.
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Steve Arthur
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As far as I'm concerned with companies it's credit where credit is due...what I do have is loyalty to designers...if a designer has consistently impressed I'll back them to the hilt...
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If GMT published OCS games, I would buy them from GMT.

The point is, GMT is the most prolific company.

But I am not disappointed buying from MMP, Clash of Arms, Compass, Hexasim, or OSG (now assimilated by GMT)
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Eric Walters
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I have no loyalty whatsoever. If it's a good game, I'm going to buy it, no matter who publishes it! I pre-pub from practically anybody and everybody--it just depends on whether I'm interested in the title or not. Sure, I have my favorite game publishers (GMT, MMP, Red Sash, Clash of Arms, Avalanche Press, Worthington Games, etc.), but I also check out the smaller operations. Gotten some really good games from them!

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Enrico Viglino
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jpr755 wrote:

Loyalty that goes both ways? What a concept. Would be nice to also get a feel for which companies show good loyalty to their customers.


Back in the day, I felt that The Gamers showed a lot
of loyalty to their customers. Now? Their service is
still very good, but the industry has mostly caught
up - and they no longer send out the free xmas countersheets.

Still, on one of my more recent orders, they threw a copy
of Circus Minimus in.
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Leo Zappa
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Loyalty, perhaps not so much. However, I tend to gravitate to companies who consistently put out good quality games on subjects that interest me. These days, that means GMT quite a bit of the time, but there are some others as well. I like DVG (Dan Verssen Games) these days too, as well as MMP. Heck, I also spend a lot of money the modern incarnation of Avalon Hill (I'm a big Axis & Allies fan, including the naval minis as well as the boardgames).

I do think that in many ways, GMT is the 21st Century 'spiritual' reincarnation of the classic AH, of which I was a great fan. From the quality and breadth of their game catalog to their consistent branding (just like you "knew" an AH game when you saw it, you "know" a GMT game when you see it - heck, there's even a resemblance in their logos), GMT has built a reputation for quality and fun games.
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Joseph Boeke
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desertfox2004 wrote:
I do think that in many ways, GMT is the 21st Century 'spiritual' reincarnation of the classic AH, of which I was a great fan. From the quality and breadth of their game catalog to their consistent branding (just like you "knew" an AH game when you saw it, you "know" a GMT game when you see it - heck, there's even a resemblance in their logos), GMT has built a reputation for quality and fun games.

You beat me to typing this - I totally agree. Part of the credit there goes to Gene (certainly on the business end) and part to Rodger (MacGowan) for the consistent graphical "look and feel" of the games...
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Patrick O'Halloran
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An occasional Lager is good to try Drive on Kursk: July 1943,but once you have tried what you like the best Barbarossa: Kiev to Rostov, 1941 and Guderian's Blitzkrieg IIyou tend to stick with it. Once and a while you have to go back to the basics and try an old favorite Luftwaffe just for the nostalgia. Sometimes you have to be bold and try something new Memoir '44 even though it seems heresy. As long as you are having fun, I see no problem.
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Jim Ransom
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kiowapilot wrote:
desertfox2004 wrote:
I do think that in many ways, GMT is the 21st Century 'spiritual' reincarnation of the classic AH, of which I was a great fan. From the quality and breadth of their game catalog to their consistent branding (just like you "knew" an AH game when you saw it, you "know" a GMT game when you see it - heck, there's even a resemblance in their logos), GMT has built a reputation for quality and fun games.

You beat me to typing this - I totally agree. Part of the credit there goes to Gene (certainly on the business end) and part of Rodger (MacGowan) for the consistent graphical "look and feel" of the games...


I think you guys have hit on a good point. In many ways the quality and breadth of GMT's offerings reminds my of AH back in the day.

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J.L. Robert
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Did Avalon Hill have as many 2nd Printings to fix the errors in their first printings?
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Rich Payne
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I have a lot of Avalanche Press stuff in my collection. I used to buy direct from them, but rising customs fees, and some terrible customer service (over two months to receive an order, not so much as an apology, and a complaint e-mail never answered) means I buy from vendors in the UK now. It means less choice in what I buy, but less cash spent and less hassle too. I still buy the games because the design is fantastic and the subject matter really appeals, but the company itself seems a nightmare to do business with.

I'm rapidly becoming a fan of GMT. Very high quality products, and a great touch with the note from the person who packed your game inserted into every box. I've only ever bought from vendors however, so couldn't comment on customer service
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Confusion Under Fire
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GMT are very prolific so that might be why you have a glut of there games, but I would suggest it isn't loyalty but confidence. You will be more inclined to go with a company or designer or retail outlet if you have confidence in them.

GMT give confidence to us by not only producing great games but having an excellent after sales service too.
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Joseph Boeke
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J.L.Robert wrote:
Did Avalon Hill have as many 2nd Printings to fix the errors in their first printings?

Seems like more to me (although they called them 2nd editions...) surprise
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Michael McCalpin
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I was an AH and SPI gamer exclusively in the first incarnation of my gaming life (1970s-early 1980s): I didn't even know there were other publishers.

Now as I glance at my shelf, I see several from GMT, but I see titles from Worthington, Columbia, Clash of Arms, Lock n Load, Grognard Simulations, and a few of the old AH and SPI titles. It is so much easier now to find out real information and opinion about new games from different publishers that I cannot imagine being as loyal to one or two publishers in the way I used to be.

And I avoid Miller Lite whenever I can...
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Andy Daglish
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J.L.Robert wrote:
Did Avalon Hill have as many 2nd Printings to fix the errors in their first printings?


No, they didn't bother.
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Andy Daglish
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What are the major non-GMT hits? I guess there's War of the Ring, whichever edition/publisher.
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Jim Ransom
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mmccalpin wrote:
And I avoid Miller Lite whenever I can...


Amen to THAT!
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Eric Walters
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aforandy wrote:
J.L.Robert wrote:
Did Avalon Hill have as many 2nd Printings to fix the errors in their first printings?


No, they didn't bother.


Well, that's not exactly true. Tobruk: Tank Battles in North Africa 1942 went through at least two editions/two printings--the rulebook and counters were different between the two printings. Squad Leader had two major printings (the purple box with the not-so-geomorphic maps and then the following printings with 2nd through at least a 3rd Edition rulebook--and I think there may have even been a 4th Ed). Cross of Iron had at least two editions of the rules. And this even before Advanced Squad Leader came on the scene! Rise and Decline of the Third Reich was perhaps the best known regarding reprints/reissues--a full four editions with rulebook and map corrections before Advanced Third Reich was released.

So while 2nd Printings/Editions weren't very common to AH, they did occur.
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ericmwalters wrote:
So while 2nd Printings/Editions weren't very common to AH, they did occur.


they never did put the boarding victory rule in Wooden Ships & Iron Men.

SL was 5. COI 3 i think, COD 2 [?] and GI was too confused for long-term regard. Thetrick was to find something answered differently in all four rulebooks. I wish they had called ASL anything other than "advanced".
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Andy Beaton
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I missed out on a lot of good SPI games back when I was an AH fanboy, and I regret it now. Be loyal, but not exclusively monogamous.
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Jim Ransom
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aiabx wrote:
Be loyal, but not exclusively monogamous.


OK. As long as I don't have to explain it to my wife...
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Jim F
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jpr755 wrote:
aiabx wrote:
Be loyal, but not exclusively monogamous.


OK. As long as I don't have to explain it to my wife...


Or girlfriend
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