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Subject: Defense against Plasma Missiles - "Missile Pickets" rss

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This is a suggested optional rule to make Plasma Missiles a bit less powerful.

Missile Pickets:

In the Missile Phase of a combat, players have the option of designating half (round up) of their ships as "Missile Pickets". A Missile Picket is esentially a ship far out in front of the main fleet, which acts as a screen for those to the rear. Plasma Missiles can only attack Missile Pickets. Likewise, "screened" ships to the rear may not themselves launch Plasma Missiles. If both sides have Plasma Missile equipped ships, they should be the ones acting as Missile Pickets, so that they can fire their own missiles if they survive.

Say you had a fleet consisting of 2 Interceptors and 2 Dreadnoughts, and it was attacked by 4 enemy Interceptors armed only with Plasma Missiles. In the Missile Phase, you tell your opponent that your 2 Interceptors are acting as "Missile Pickets". Your opponent rolls for hits and damage but can only damage the 2 Interceptors, as they are screening the 2 Dreadnoughts. Once they have fired their missiles, they will have to turn and flee, but your Dreadnoughts will have survived the missile attack and will be able to engage the enemy ships for one engagement round before they escape.

The idea for this optional rule comes from the "Falklands War", in which the British fleet used cheaper frigates as pickets against "Exocet" missile attack, protecting the aircraft carriers to the rear.
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Camelorn
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I like the general idea. Needs thorough playtesting as it might make missiles too weak (can you even imagine that ).

You should specify more clearly, that if you choose to set up missile pickets, you have to at least designate half of your fleet (rounded up) as missile pickets.
 
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Jim Richardson

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I like this idea, but I'm against house rules in general. If missiles are unbalanced (I dunno if they are yet) I would hope that ideas could be floated about that the designers could implement, perhaps in an expansion.

I've mentioned Anti-missile rocket tech, like in MoO2, but I don't think it would be that great -- may not be available to counter missiles, or you may get anti-missile rockets and no missiles, giving you a totally useless tech in that situation.

Another idea (from MoO2) would be point-defense turrets. Say you could have the option (whether through tech, or just as a universal option) to designate any existing turret as point defense. Those PD turrets would get a roll against missiles, but would have a penalty in normal combat, like -1 to hit, and/or maybe couldn't fire the first combat round (your ship would have to get into range, etc.)
 
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Scott DeMers
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Personally, I think is one of the worse ideas I have seen. Any solution that creates additional rules vs. leveraging the existing rules is a) outside the scope and intention of the designer, b) full of potential additional imbalances.

Much better ideas are the simple solutions like missles require 1 power.
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Camelorn wrote:
I like the general idea. Needs thorough playtesting as it might make missiles too weak (can you even imagine that ).

You should specify more clearly, that if you choose to set up missile pickets, you have to at least designate half of your fleet (rounded up) as missile pickets.


Yes, sorry if that wasn't clear. There must be at least one Missile Picket for every ship screened, and screened ships equipped with Plasma Missiles may not take part in the Missile Phase. Therefore, it follows that at least half (round up) of your ships have to be Missile Pickets, and that they should be the ones with Plasma Missiles themselves if they want to fire them.
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Antti Autio
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ParticleMan wrote:
I like this idea, but I'm against house rules in general. If missiles are unbalanced (I dunno if they are yet) I would hope that ideas could be floated about that the designers could implement, perhaps in an expansion.

I've mentioned Anti-missile rocket tech, like in MoO2, but I don't think it would be that great -- may not be available to counter missiles, or you may get anti-missile rockets and no missiles, giving you a totally useless tech in that situation.

Another idea (from MoO2) would be point-defense turrets. Say you could have the option (whether through tech, or just as a universal option) to designate any existing turret as point defense. Those PD turrets would get a roll against missiles, but would have a penalty in normal combat, like -1 to hit, and/or maybe couldn't fire the first combat round (your ship would have to get into range, etc.)

Already done.. too bad you'll have to wait until the expansion to see the implementation, though. Rest assured that the designers have plenty of ideas on how to diversify the options available to players in regard to missile combat.
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sdmers wrote:
Personally, I think is one of the worse ideas I have seen. Any solution that creates additional rules vs. leveraging the existing rules is a) outside the scope and intention of the designer, b) full of potential additional imbalances.


I don't think this is as complicated as you suggest. As for it being outside the scope and intention of the designer, by definition, that is what an optional rule is.

sdmers wrote:
Much better ideas are the simple solutions like missles require 1 power.


Which makes them cannons - albeit longer-ranged ones - and not missiles. I have no problem with missiles requiring no ship power (they wouldn't in real life, except for the miniscule amount of juice required to open the hatch of a launch tube). The problem is more that any sort of counter-measure that would exist in real life (fleet formations, decoys) has been forgotten about by the designer.
 
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Jim Richardson

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aautio wrote:
ParticleMan wrote:
Another idea (from MoO2) would be point-defense turrets. Say you could have the option (whether through tech, or just as a universal option) to designate any existing turret as point defense. Those PD turrets would get a roll against missiles, but would have a penalty in normal combat, like -1 to hit, and/or maybe couldn't fire the first combat round (your ship would have to get into range, etc.)

Already done.. too bad you'll have to wait until the expansion to see the implementation, though. Rest assured that the designers have plenty of ideas on how to diversify the options available to players in regard to missile combat.


Cool.

In case development was still happening on it, I was thinking more about the issue after my post, and decided that any solution to "screw over" missiles which was available to anyone for free would not be the best idea. You should have to learn tech to adapt. But it needs to be a tech that does more than just give missile defense, so it's not just dead weight a lot of the time, and would also need to be either early or mid-game tech, otherwise early-missile strategies could still dominate. Ideas at the moment:

1.) Advanced Turret Control
Tech that opens up the option to install existing cannons as point-defense or heavy-mount, without adding a new module to the ship

2.) Tracking Computer
Tech that allows a tracking computer to be installed as a ship part, which allows some or all of the above, and a reduced +hit bonus compared with a normal computer of the same cost (say +1 and turret benefits, with the same research cost as positronic computer)

3.) Mass Driver or other new turrets
Tech that opens mass drivers or other new turrets to be installed as ship parts, which may only have damage comparable to ion cannon, but special abilities like being able to hit missiles and ignore shields (took ideas from both MoO2 and X3 there )
 
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ParticleMan wrote:
Ideas at the moment:

1.) Advanced Turret Control
Tech that opens up the option to install existing cannons as point-defense or heavy-mount, without adding a new module to the ship

2.) Tracking Computer
Tech that allows a tracking computer to be installed as a ship part, which allows some or all of the above, and a reduced +hit bonus compared with a normal computer of the same cost (say +1 and turret benefits, with the same research cost as positronic computer)

3.) Mass Driver or other new turrets
Tech that opens mass drivers or other new turrets to be installed as ship parts, which may only have damage comparable to ion cannon, but special abilities like being able to hit missiles and ignore shields (took ideas from both MoO2 and X3 there )


Here's another:

Flak Cannon:
- Versus Ships:
- - To Hit: Ignore computers and shields (i.e. only hits on a 6)
- - Damage: 1
- Versus Plasma Missiles:
- - Roll a dice for each missile that hits. On a 4, 5 or 6, the missile misses instead.

[EDIT]

Here's an implementation that would not require extra coloured dice or extra rolls.

Flak Cannon (Cost 8/5, Power: 0):
- Versus Ships:
- - To Hit: Roll a Yellow die (like Ion Cannon)
- - Damage: 1/2 (round down). E.g. 2 Ion Cannon hits + 2 Flak Cannon hits = 3 damage
- Versus Plasma Missiles:
- - Treated like a -2 Shield
 
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stu ma
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Are missles really that much of a problem?
 
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Jeremy Diachuk
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Aselan wrote:
Are missles really that much of a problem?


Not quite.

They're as game-changing as the Wormhole Generator can be, or an early-game +3 Computer Ancient Ship part. Something to watch for that can really change the dynamics of the game, but also not unbeatable with proper tactics and foresight.
 
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Adam Ruzzo
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The variant in the OP seems unnecessarily complex to fix the missile problem (if it is a problem). The best answer I've seen is to give missiles a +1 energy cost.
 
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Forrest & Ryan Driskel
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It doesn't seem that complex to me, I would implement it as such:

Literally, on the board, ships in the front row would take the missile hits before those in the back row. Any missiles remaining could hit the back row.

It actually sounds logical to me.
 
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Ade Lewis
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Missile Balancing

Roll one dice to target missiles
- add one dice for each ship being attacked

Roll a dice to hit for each successful target roll

 
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