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Subject: Diplomacy question we had in our last 5 player game. rss

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Charlie Chuckle
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If player A and player B have an diplomatic relations, and player B has an influence hex in System 1 (no ships).

Player C has a planets and ships in System 2.

Can player A send ships through System 1 to invade System 2 without breaking relations with Player B. We ruled that as long as there is no combat phase with Player A and B. Then their would be no traitor card passed. Including no loss in diplomatic relations.

Player A ---> System 1(controlled by B) ---> System 2(controlled by C)

=======================================================
=======================================================

Can Player A attack Player C going through System 1 without breaking diplomatic relations? (We couldn't find this specific scenario explained in the rulebook)
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Mikko Saari
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The diplomatic relations between A and B break immediately when A moves to a system controlled by B.
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Carmen Pop
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The rulebook states, for breaking a diplomatic relation:
"Moving your Ships to a hex where the other player has a disc or a Ship is considered an attack."

So, no, you cannot move your ships through the hex controlled by B, it is considered an attack and diplomatic relations are broken.
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Antti Autio
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Yep, that's right: Not possible. I mean: yes, Player A can move through the hex, but he would end up with the Traitor token and the Ambassadors would be returned.
 
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Eike Hanus
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Well the thing is if you move your ships through a system of another player that you have diplomatic relations with the ships do not stop there. Technically you move your ships *to* the last system they stop in during their move. (Of course they could be pinned if someone has ships in the system in question).

Our group decided that moving through a hex does not break relations but moving into a hex does. If a designer could clear this up that would be great.
 
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Timo Hohkala
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I think it breaks the relationships either way. This is probably to keep the rules simple, yet I find this counter-intuitive when it comes actual political relationships.
 
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Sampo Sikiö
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This has been addressed multiple times, but once more: yes, it does break the Diplomatic relations. Note that the rules say nothing about stopping in the hex -- as soon as you move there, it's considered an attack.
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Jeremy Diachuk
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As an important addendum, moving through a hex is considered moving into that hex, both for purposes of diplomatic relations and whether the ship becomes pinned (otherwise, you'd be able to move through occupied territory, since by any other reasoning your ship would never "be in" the occupied hex, so this obviously is a faulty line of reasoning). This is why moving through someone's territory (even if it's bereft of ships) still breaks diplomatic ties.
 
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Antti Autio
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twibs wrote:
I think it breaks the relationships either way. This is probably to keep the rules simple, yet I find this counter-intuitive when it comes actual political relationships.

Do you? Don't you ever wonder why the Finnish Army doesn't regularily cross the border to the Russian side (lately..) or ever to Sweden?
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Steve Hope
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But what about US armies marching through their ally France to attack Germany in WWII? I don't care either way as far as the game (and I know there's another lengthy thread which gets into absurd navel-contemplating about how the fictional universe "should" work), but certainly allies allow their armies to cross their territory all the time in prosecuting wars.
 
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Antti Autio
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stephenhope wrote:
But what about US armies marching through their ally France to attack Germany in WWII? I don't care either way as far as the game (and I know there's another lengthy thread which gets into absurd navel-contemplating about how the fictional universe "should" work), but certainly allies allow their armies to cross their territory all the time in prosecuting wars.

Allies, yes. But the diplomatic treaty in Eclipse is not an alliance. There are no alliances in (the base game of) Eclipse (- yet!).
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Eike Hanus
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Thanks for the clarification. Will add that to my personal FAQ.
 
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Charlie Chuckle
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edit:

Moving into a hex to do combat earns you the traitor card instantly, or immediately after you enter the hex. (traitor card is passed LOOOONG before combat, we played the game wrong. We didn't pass the traitor card till after combat).

Moving through a hex earns you the traitor card instantly.


edit: they are both immediately, we've been playing the traitor card wrong. The word "attack" was confusing to me in the rulebook. It clearly defines "attack" as moving into a system, not combat.
 
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Chad Geister
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To add some detail to the post about WWII. When marching across France, technically the US was at war with the Germans the whole time, and they fought their way across the country. And later, pulled back and gave it back to France.

In game terms, it was German territory when the Americans marched across it, but they didn't claim the hexes as they went, so they were unoccupied behind them...

So, the dimplomatic relations are still fairly real-life, in my opinion.
 
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