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Blood Bowl: Team Manager – The Card Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Dump-Off question rss

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Esteban Vasquez
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Assume I have a player with Dump-Off that reads...
Quote:
Dump-Off: If this player would become the ball carrier or drop the ball,
you may move the ball to a friendly player at this matchup.


And another manager plays a player with a passing icon, normally the ball will go to mid field, is that considered "Dropping the ball" and activates my Dump-Off and I can give the ball to another of my players?
 
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CJ
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My understanding is that the use of passing icons does not qualify as 'dropping' the ball and therefore it would stay at midfield.

edit: I incorrectly phrased the original response.
 
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brian
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Arael wrote:
Assume I have a player with Dump-Off that reads...
Quote:
Dump-Off: If this player would become the ball carrier or drop the ball,
you may move the ball to a friendly player at this matchup.


And another manager plays a player with a passing icon, normally the ball will go to mid field, is that considered "Dropping the ball" and activates my Dump-Off and I can give the ball to another of my players?

No, dropping the ball is only a result of becoming Downed or Injured, both of which are typically results of being tackled. You can also drop it by being ejected.

Skills like Passing and Strip ball are basically stealing the ball without triggering the "drop" effects.
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Hm, yes by reading the rules i come to the same conclusion for "Dump Off" as ColtsFan.

But is this Working As Intended? The "Dump-Off" skill does look fairly weak as it stands.

However, i have only played the game one time, so my view might be biased.
 
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tom cap
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Hi all.

Sorry if I'm wrong to revive the thread but my friends and I just discovered BB:TM (what a blast) and ran into questions regarding Dump-Off.

According to our knowledge of the original Blood Bowl game we assumed that Strip Ball would trigger Dump-Off because when you strip the ball (in Blood Bowl), it's done during a tackle action and the ball falls on the ground.

Now I'm reading otherwise on the forums and I need to ask if anyone can enlighten us. Is there a FF statement on this or something we missed?

Also we considered the ball is loose when it's on the middle card so we interpretated that the use of a passing skill moving the ball from a player to the middle card was the same as taking it down. So this would trigger Dump-Off too. Were we right or wrong to consider so?

I'm aware old threads on the forums seem to state Dump off can only be triggered by a tackle (even if this isn't the wording of the skill description), but if it's the case I agree with LordTengil, this skill does seem pretty weak in BB:TM when it's a neat trick in the original Blood Bowl.

Thanks in advance for your help and advice.

And happy new year !
 
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brian
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I don't know the original Blood Bowl rules and so can only answer in the vacuum of BBTM. This is a different game by different designers. So you can't assume that rules from the original transfer to here even if they use the same terms. FFG is very specific in their terminology.

"Strip Ball" is a result that is different than dropping or downing the player. But it is an optional ability so if you would rather still use the Tackle Icon and attempt to down or injure the player, you can do so. But at that point, "Dump-off" can come into affect. As it stands, nothing about Strip Ball triggers Dump-off.

Dropping the ball does move the ball to midfield but moving the ball to midfield is not necessarily dropping the ball. More things than dropping the ball can move the ball to midfield.
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I see your point, and thanks for your answer, but in this case dump-off is quite weak if not useless, isn't it?

Teams are full of guys with the passing skill and there's a couple of teams with "strip-ballers" and all these players can retrieve the ball from a player with Dump-Off at will, you say...

Now let's picture something a tad different.
When there's a game, the ball is either in the hands of a player, either loose, right?
So this match card in between the teams, what does it represent when the ball is on it? I assume it means that the ball is loose at some point. I'll pretend we agree on that an go on with my idea...
So if you use strip ball or the passing skill to take the ball from the hands of a player it gets loose, because it has to pass by the middle card even before being picked up by another player or even the same should he have 2 passing skill icons, right?

So if a ball that was held gets loose, can't we assume it's been dropped?
 
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brian
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tomfromparis wrote:
I see your point, and thanks for your answer, but in this case dump-off is quite weak if not useless, isn't it?

If you feel it is weak, that is fine! Not everything has to be equally powerful. Useless? I don't agree there. Having the ability is more useful than not having the ability. If I do happen to get tackled, there is a chance to pass it off. Also, i can grab the ball myself and then pass it off to a more powerful player. So there are plenty of uses for it. You may not like it (a matter of opinion and that's okay) but to state it is useless is not fact.

Quote:
Teams are full of guys with the passing skill and there's a couple of teams with "strip-ballers" and all these players can retrieve the ball from a player with Dump-Off at will, you say...

Sure, but again, it is just another means of passing if this player gets the ball or gets tackled.

The other subtlety here is your are not going to flat out tackle some one with the Dump off ability and so "waste" your other skills trying to take it down.

Quote:
Now let's picture something a tad different.
When there's a game, the ball is either in the hands of a player, either loose, right?
So this match card in between the teams, what does it represent when the ball is on it? I assume it means that the ball is loose at some point. I'll pretend we agree on that an go on with my idea...

ok

Quote:
So if you use strip ball or the passing skill to take the ball from the hands of a player it gets loose, because it has to pass by the middle card even before being picked up by another player or even the same should he have 2 passing skill icons, right?

So if a ball that was held gets loose, can't we assume it's been dropped?

No. Because that is not how FFG has defined the terms in this game.

Again, I can't comment on what Blood Bowl represents. It may be Rugby, it may be American Football. My assumption is American Football as I am in America and this was designed by Americans. Getting stripped of the ball is usually an action that takes you by surprise. You don't have time to react (otherwise you would have reacted by holding on to the ball). So being able to then dump the ball off to someone else is not an option.

Getting tackled means your body is coming down but your arms may be free to do things. The assumption in the game is that once tackled you lose the ball unless you have Sure Hands. But in a real game, if you are going off, you have the ability to toss the ball to someone else. The difference between being tackled vs getting stripped is that your body is the thing being attacked instead of the ball.

So from that perspective, it makes thematic sense as it stands. maybe that doesn't make sense for Blood Bowl or the real life sport it is trying to emulate but this is not Blood Bowl. it is a different game by different designers.

You are more than free to play the game how you want. If you think Dump off needs to be strengthened, by all means do it. If you want to share that with other, post it in the variant section.

But as far as making an argument in the rules section, you won't convince me unless FFG produces errata on it.
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Oh thanks a lot for the detailed explanation.

But I am by no mean trying to suggest a variant, but merely trying to understand the rules.

We didn't find them clear on the subject, so I guess we just missed a sentence somewhere. I especially feel like this when you say "that is not how FFG has defined the terms in this game". We must have missed something blush

We didn't find where it's written that dropped ball was only the consequence of being tackled, and since the Dump-Off skill description didn't simply state "when the player gets the ball or gets tackled", we just started to wonder what was meant by "when the ball is dropped".

Again, thanks for you help and time
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