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Mage Knight Board Game» Forums » Variants

Subject: Which Variants Do You Like? rss

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Wade Kemper
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I've only played once (the teaching game) and despite suggestions not to, I added the Interactive Combat variant. While we mostly did not engage in the variant, save once or twice, it was good to know it was there, and anything that gives players something to do during downtime is a plus for me in any game, so that one is staying in.

The other one I want to do is the card draft before the game. Not a viable variant on the first play, but something I definately want to do in the future.

How about everyone else? Variants?
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Jason Reid
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I know it's not an official variant, but I don't yet play with the common skill offer. While I've gotten in a number of games under my belt, I'm still mostly teaching it to new people, and I don't relish the thought of burdening folks with those extra rules, that imo, wouldn't be that significant to them anyway.
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jasonwocky wrote:
I know it's not an official variant, but I don't yet play with the common skill offer. While I've gotten in a number of games under my belt, I'm still mostly teaching it to new people, and I don't relish the thought of burdening folks with those extra rules, that imo, wouldn't be that significant to them anyway.


Very good idea. When learning the game, I recommend people just stick to their own skills.
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Wade Kemper
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I actually have no plan to allow players to pull from one another's discarded skills via the common skill offering. I like the idea of the dragon being the only one to fly, and other character exclusive stuff. Too much cross-polination chips away at the (already small) differences in characters.
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Sander van der Drift
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I agree. I don't even get why the option to choose another player's skill is added to the rules. Imo it adds nothing to the game. It only makes the game more complicated. Also, it takes more time for most players to choose their skill at level-up because of all the choices.
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Scott Yost
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My opinion is that it's part of a balancing mechanism between the characters - if a given table feels that Arythea's skills are extremely powerful, for example, they can take comfort in the fact that half of her skills will be on offer to the rest of the table.
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Jason Reid
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Yostage wrote:
My opinion is that it's part of a balancing mechanism between the characters - if a given table feels that Arythea's skills are extremely powerful, for example, they can take comfort in the fact that half of her skills will be on offer to the rest of the table.


I agree. And like the official "Character Auction" variant which exists for the same reason, I think it might have been better implemented as an optional rule.
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Tom
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I don't have enough plays under my belt to believe it is warranted but I am curious if there is a movement variant out there? The three games I have played, movement seemed to really jam people and it was a major complaint. I realize, in theory once people play the game enough they will develop strategies to play the game more efficiently but I have to get them over that hump first. After a few plays several people were meh with the game and there number one complaint was movement (lack of cards, having to spend combat cards because they lacked movement cards, etc).

Any suggestions?
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Kevin Walsh
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johnnyspys wrote:
I don't have enough plays under my belt to believe it is warranted but I am curious if there is a movement variant out there? The three games I have played, movement seemed to really jam people and it was a major complaint. I realize, in theory once people play the game enough they will develop strategies to play the game more efficiently but I have to get them over that hump first. After a few plays several people were meh with the game and there number one complaint was movement (lack of cards, having to spend combat cards because they lacked movement cards, etc).

Honestly, if people have a problem with movement, they need to be picking up movement actions, units with movement abilities, and/or movement skills. It's highly unlikely that you'd get locked out of getting all of them.
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Chris J Davis
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johnnyspys wrote:
I don't have enough plays under my belt to believe it is warranted but I am curious if there is a movement variant out there? The three games I have played, movement seemed to really jam people and it was a major complaint. I realize, in theory once people play the game enough they will develop strategies to play the game more efficiently but I have to get them over that hump first. After a few plays several people were meh with the game and there number one complaint was movement (lack of cards, having to spend combat cards because they lacked movement cards, etc).

Any suggestions?


Take movement cards from the Advanced Actions Offer...?
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Tom
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Amaranth wrote:
johnnyspys wrote:
I don't have enough plays under my belt to believe it is warranted but I am curious if there is a movement variant out there? The three games I have played, movement seemed to really jam people and it was a major complaint. I realize, in theory once people play the game enough they will develop strategies to play the game more efficiently but I have to get them over that hump first. After a few plays several people were meh with the game and there number one complaint was movement (lack of cards, having to spend combat cards because they lacked movement cards, etc).

Honestly, if people have a problem with movement, they need to be picking up movement actions, units with movement abilities, and/or movement skills. It's highly unlikely that you'd get locked out of getting all of them.


That is obvious Captain ...however, you first have to get to the units to purchase them...and they can only be used once per day/night (unless you have spells, objects, etc that refresh them which you don't start with). This is the horse before the cart answer that on principle I agree with but I am trying to find a way to speed up that process in the game for newer players. I think this game is such that you have to play it several times in order to know the cards, in order to know the potential in the game, in order to know what the optimal paths are to start on immediately in order to build up the game (thats a lot of in orders).

I guess another way to explain it, is I am looking for a short, simple, script if you will to explain how to get people going as quickly as possible. There are already too many rules for many people that overwhelm them and after a two hour rules explanation where I explain every card, people are underwhelmed by the gaming experience (and perhaps lost).

On the other hand, if I can provide a streamlined rules explanation that goes to the quickly, people will have more of a chance of performing moderately well and liking the game. It seemed to work but the movement rules were again what frustrated them the most because unlike many games they have played in the past this game works differently. Yes that might be why you like it but remember not everyone embrases different or change.

I really don't like the starting scenario because it is over too quickly, doesn't have enough meat in it, and seems to be more geared to rules acclamation...which is fine for the "rules explainers/game explorers" of the group but for many others the results were "thats it? Thats the game? oh that was boring. So I want to introduce people to the full game, however, depending on the tiles that flip over first, a game with desserts can be bogged down quickly.

I am convinced there is a game that I will like lurking in the box but I am trying to find the quickest way to explain how to improve moving. By the way, there are plenty of times when troops, cards, or powers, that help improve movement were not available for some time and that bogged the game down...hence a variant of always having one of those available at the beginning of the game (although I don't know if that would break the game) so I am asking for suggestions. People who love the game won't care about these problems and will see them as challenges to overcome. People who are new, unconvinced, or perhaps don't like these kind of games (whatever that perception is) need a little more help convincing them that dessert move five tiles are "fun and challenging".
 
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Tom
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bleached_lizard wrote:
johnnyspys wrote:
I don't have enough plays under my belt to believe it is warranted but I am curious if there is a movement variant out there? The three games I have played, movement seemed to really jam people and it was a major complaint. I realize, in theory once people play the game enough they will develop strategies to play the game more efficiently but I have to get them over that hump first. After a few plays several people were meh with the game and there number one complaint was movement (lack of cards, having to spend combat cards because they lacked movement cards, etc).

Any suggestions?


Take movement cards from the Advanced Actions Offer...?


Ok this is more like it...how would you do that? Just put them in the first offer, integrate them into player's decks? Let the player have that as one of their starting hand cards....etc.

See I think if the authors created a "fast start" variant for new players that would make the game easier to teach....you know you don't normally start out with this kind of powerful setup but part of the fun is working/developing up to this level.
 
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johnnyspys wrote:
bleached_lizard wrote:
johnnyspys wrote:
I don't have enough plays under my belt to believe it is warranted but I am curious if there is a movement variant out there? The three games I have played, movement seemed to really jam people and it was a major complaint. I realize, in theory once people play the game enough they will develop strategies to play the game more efficiently but I have to get them over that hump first. After a few plays several people were meh with the game and there number one complaint was movement (lack of cards, having to spend combat cards because they lacked movement cards, etc).

Any suggestions?


Take movement cards from the Advanced Actions Offer...?


Ok this is more like it...how would you do that? Just put them in the first offer, integrate them into player's decks? Let the player have that as one of their starting hand cards....etc.

See I think if the authors created a "fast start" variant for new players that would make the game easier to teach....you know you don't normally start out with this kind of powerful setup but part of the fun is working/developing up to this level.


Why not use the official drafting variant included in the rulebook?
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Paul Grogan
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johnnyspys wrote:


Tom, I sympathise with some of your comments. However, I'm a little confused. Mage Knight is a complex game. It is a fact that it takes a few games to get used to the cards and the combos and the play style. Knowing when to not block and take the wounds, knowing how tough fights can be, etc. You seem to be able to jump people into the full game right away and them be able to play it with the experience they wont have. I don't believe this is possible.

There is no 'script' on "how to play the full game". Remember though that the walkthrough is a tutorial game. It is designed just to teach people the rules. Yes, it is a game, there is a goal, you do score, and there is an end, but it's sole purpose is to teach people the rules.

You say you have had people complain that they didnt feel it was a game. Did you explain to them that this is purely designed just to teach them 75% of the rules?

Jumping into a full game initially has been proved (by a few people I know) to have a negative effect on peoples first games. Too many rules to take in at the start, and people flounder when attacking cities without even getting used to the basic mechanics. As you have said yourself, this would take 2 hours of rules explanation, having to explain every card, and this would simply not work with people.

If it works for your gaming group, then fine, but all the ones I know who tried this just ended up with one player completely lost, sat their for hours not having a clue what to do and watching the other players get on with things.

Also note that play time is massively longer for new players. It is not uncommon for a 4 player full scenario with new players to take 7-8 hours. This is enough to put some people off already. That same game with experienced players is about 4 hours.

The walkthrough is shorter, and there just to help people master the basics of the game - and it teached you as you go. So, it just teaches you what you need, and then as each new location gets revealed, more rules. By the end of the game, people now know most of the game and have learnt it at a nice pace.

However, if you do want to skip it, I recommend playing the Blitz Conquest. It is just as much fun (I find), but in a shorter time. I used this a lot to demo the game (once people had played the walkthrough).


As for your original movement card question, I have played LOTS of games, and I know people that have played LOTS more than me. Nobody I know has found this an issue really. Yes, there are times when you have not drawn as many move cards as you needed to, but there are so many ways to move out there, or ways to get more cards, and you can always play cards sideways for 1 Move, you will always be able to do it.

Moaning about "not having the right cards" is something more experienced players do less when they realise the flexibility of other cards they may have and different ways they can play them.
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Wade Kemper
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How much would this variant change the game? Play a card sideways for 2 movement. Any other bonus like Improvisation, adds that +1 already!
That way, a single card play can at least move you to a grassland. Another easy change would be to simply reduce movement costs on all terrain by 1.
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PaulGrogan wrote:
johnnyspys wrote:


Tom, I sympathise with some of your comments. However, I'm a little confused. Mage Knight is a complex game. It is a fact that it takes a few games to get used to the cards and the combos and the play style. Knowing when to not block and take the wounds, knowing how tough fights can be, etc. You seem to be able to jump people into the full game right away and them be able to play it with the experience they wont have. I don't believe this is possible.

There is no 'script' on "how to play the full game". Remember though that the walkthrough is a tutorial game. It is designed just to teach people the rules. Yes, it is a game, there is a goal, you do score, and there is an end, but it's sole purpose is to teach people the rules.

You say you have had people complain that they didnt feel it was a game. Did you explain to them that this is purely designed just to teach them 75% of the rules?

Jumping into a full game initially has been proved (by a few people I know) to have a negative effect on peoples first games. Too many rules to take in at the start, and people flounder when attacking cities without even getting used to the basic mechanics. As you have said yourself, this would take 2 hours of rules explanation, having to explain every card, and this would simply not work with people.

If it works for your gaming group, then fine, but all the ones I know who tried this just ended up with one player completely lost, sat their for hours not having a clue what to do and watching the other players get on with things.

Also note that play time is massively longer for new players. It is not uncommon for a 4 player full scenario with new players to take 7-8 hours. This is enough to put some people off already. That same game with experienced players is about 4 hours.

The walkthrough is shorter, and there just to help people master the basics of the game - and it teached you as you go. So, it just teaches you what you need, and then as each new location gets revealed, more rules. By the end of the game, people now know most of the game and have learnt it at a nice pace.

However, if you do want to skip it, I recommend playing the Blitz Conquest. It is just as much fun (I find), but in a shorter time. I used this a lot to demo the game (once people had played the walkthrough).


As for your original movement card question, I have played LOTS of games, and I know people that have played LOTS more than me. Nobody I know has found this an issue really. Yes, there are times when you have not drawn as many move cards as you needed to, but there are so many ways to move out there, or ways to get more cards, and you can always play cards sideways for 1 Move, you will always be able to do it.

Moaning about "not having the right cards" is something more experienced players do less when they realize the flexibility of other cards they may have and different ways they can play them.


Note I am not complaining about the game for myself, but I am about ready to give up on the game if I can't get it on the table without people complaining about it. I have been successful introducing Age of Steam and what I consider equally dense games. Your experiences may be different but remember there are plenty of different gamers. Before I moved from Chicago, I was spoiled by a plethora of great gamers and this game would not be an issue. Where I live now, there are some great gamers but most of the people I play with are casual and like medium to lite games. I would love to play heavier games (I don't think this game is that heavy, just has a lot of customization).

When I say I mean script I mean a way of thinking...perhaps a strategy of playing the game...perhaps not to win but to enjoy the experience. For example, most Chess players will say you need to control the center. I realize there are other ways to win Chess but controlling the center is a good start.

Perhaps, the jest of what you you are saying is this game is more of a heavy gamers game and perhaps not something to spring on newer boardgamers. At first I didn't think this game was that hard to understand or comprehend and everyone seemed able to grasp the game. However, if people didn't have fun they are less likely to want to play it again. The number one problem was movement..."if that was solved I would play this again". I am not a big fan of house rules so I was asking for ways "to look at the bigger strategy and basic strategies to help a player have a better experience." I do think it takes some strategy and development to get up and going in this game. I guess I am looking for those strategies. I am sure there are several possible strategies but ultimately that is what I am asking for...strategies.

I agree with your statement: "Moaning about not having the right cards is something more experienced players do less." However, if some players moan too much...the game will never see the table again...their decision not mine. Yes I could get another group but that is not as easy.

 
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johnnyspys wrote:
PaulGrogan wrote:
johnnyspys wrote:


Tom, I sympathise with some of your comments. However, I'm a little confused. Mage Knight is a complex game. It is a fact that it takes a few games to get used to the cards and the combos and the play style. Knowing when to not block and take the wounds, knowing how tough fights can be, etc. You seem to be able to jump people into the full game right away and them be able to play it with the experience they wont have. I don't believe this is possible.

There is no 'script' on "how to play the full game". Remember though that the walkthrough is a tutorial game. It is designed just to teach people the rules. Yes, it is a game, there is a goal, you do score, and there is an end, but it's sole purpose is to teach people the rules.

You say you have had people complain that they didnt feel it was a game. Did you explain to them that this is purely designed just to teach them 75% of the rules?

Jumping into a full game initially has been proved (by a few people I know) to have a negative effect on peoples first games. Too many rules to take in at the start, and people flounder when attacking cities without even getting used to the basic mechanics. As you have said yourself, this would take 2 hours of rules explanation, having to explain every card, and this would simply not work with people.

If it works for your gaming group, then fine, but all the ones I know who tried this just ended up with one player completely lost, sat their for hours not having a clue what to do and watching the other players get on with things.

Also note that play time is massively longer for new players. It is not uncommon for a 4 player full scenario with new players to take 7-8 hours. This is enough to put some people off already. That same game with experienced players is about 4 hours.

The walkthrough is shorter, and there just to help people master the basics of the game - and it teached you as you go. So, it just teaches you what you need, and then as each new location gets revealed, more rules. By the end of the game, people now know most of the game and have learnt it at a nice pace.

However, if you do want to skip it, I recommend playing the Blitz Conquest. It is just as much fun (I find), but in a shorter time. I used this a lot to demo the game (once people had played the walkthrough).


As for your original movement card question, I have played LOTS of games, and I know people that have played LOTS more than me. Nobody I know has found this an issue really. Yes, there are times when you have not drawn as many move cards as you needed to, but there are so many ways to move out there, or ways to get more cards, and you can always play cards sideways for 1 Move, you will always be able to do it.

Moaning about "not having the right cards" is something more experienced players do less when they realize the flexibility of other cards they may have and different ways they can play them.


Note I am not complaining about the game for myself, but I am about ready to give up on the game if I can't get it on the table without people complaining about it. I have been successful introducing Age of Steam and what I consider equally dense games. Your experiences may be different but remember there are plenty of different gamers. Before I moved from Chicago, I was spoiled by a plethora of great gamers and this game would not be an issue. Where I live now, there are some great gamers but most of the people I play with are casual and like medium to lite games. I would love to play heavier games (I don't think this game is that heavy, just has a lot of customization).

When I say I mean script I mean a way of thinking...perhaps a strategy of playing the game...perhaps not to win but to enjoy the experience. For example, most Chess players will say you need to control the center. I realize there are other ways to win Chess but controlling the center is a good start.

Perhaps, the jest of what you you are saying is this game is more of a heavy gamers game and perhaps not something to spring on newer boardgamers. At first I didn't think this game was that hard to understand or comprehend and everyone seemed able to grasp the game. However, if people didn't have fun they are less likely to want to play it again. The number one problem was movement..."if that was solved I would play this again". I am not a big fan of house rules so I was asking for ways "to look at the bigger strategy and basic strategies to help a player have a better experience." I do think it takes some strategy and development to get up and going in this game. I guess I am looking for those strategies. I am sure there are several possible strategies but ultimately that is what I am asking for...strategies.

I agree with your statement: "Moaning about not having the right cards is something more experienced players do less." However, if some players moan too much...the game will never see the table again...their decision not mine. Yes I could get another group but that is not as easy.



Did anyone actually take any movement actions in your game? The movement actions are *very* powerful; I have seen someone use one to attack a city from the opposite side of the map on a single turn. It's very easy to always be tempted by the attack actions, but each player really should take at least one movement action at some point during the game as well.
 
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Personally, I wouldn't spring the full game on people without teaching them via the walkthrough scenario. However, one thing you could do is play a full/blitz game using the opening tiles for the walkthrough scenario, which create a much easier start.
 
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Played again today...second to last round, same problem, night surrounded by woods, dessert and other things that are 3 or 5 and couldn't move without discarding cards for single move points for the last three hands...and didn't have mana to boost move cards. So the last three turns the player sat and did nothing.

As a consequence of the quicksand, the player never wants to play this game again. I am bummed but even when I tried to help them with the bad dice rolls, no mana, mana pools out of reach, dragons near by and expensive terrain, it would have been discard six cards move two spaces, discard six cards move two spaces and end turn and end round with the remaining cards all move cards.

I really wish the movement costs were not so high...with the wrong combinations of cards the game really can bog down. I would argue not everything can be planned for.

 
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johnnyspys wrote:
Played again today...second to last round, same problem, night surrounded by woods, dessert and other things that are 3 or 5 and couldn't move without discarding cards for single move points for the last three hands...and didn't have mana to boost move cards. So the last three turns the player sat and did nothing.


I for one am really confused. How can a player be stuck for 3 complete turns with no movement cards? Yes, it does happen that a player has no move cards. It also happens that they may have a move card but not the right mana to power it.

In your example, you say they did have a move card, but not the mana. So, ok, you play that card and then a couple sideways to allow you to move. Yes, it isnt far, but then he draws more card. Remember you can voluntarily discard cards at the end of your turn before refreshing your hand. If a player sits there and looks at his cards and says "Oh no, I have no move cards." And then proceeds not to discard any, draw 2 new cards and moan again, then they should have discarded more cards.

Seriously Tom, I have played this lots, and others have played this lots more, some people 50-60 times. The issue is not really as big as you are making it out, which means either some rules are being misunderstood or people aren't working out yet how to play the game. With experience comes knowing when to discard cards to draw more.
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I agree, seems like you might be playing it wrong as its rare that I go more than 1 hand without some movement card or a card that can be powered up for movement.

Some helpfull teaching tips.
Until you build up some followers, you really can only easily win the Orc battles. I recommend making a beeline towards the nearest town. Buy a unit with movement bonuses and then loot the town for an extra card. Now you are set up for a 6 card hand with a follower, a great time to go fight something.

I suspect new people may be trying to do too many things at once. Until you get some more powerful cards or special ablities, you realistically will either get a combat hand, an influence hand, a movement hand, or a mix. So you might need to counsel people to roughly plan these 3 actions during a full Day/Night. Don't wander into deep woods if you already have used up your big movement cards.
It might be helpfull to create a chart for new people listing how many move/combat/influnce cards there are roughly, so they can have some idea of what is coming.
I could see people being frustrated when they don't have a feel for how many of each type they have in a hand and thus overspend or toss a powerfull card for 1 action point.

Poliorcetes
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Tom, I feel your pain. I suspect your game group might be like mine. You're the big gamer, keep up with news and BGG stuff, games get filtered through you to others. You know the game cn be cool, but it requires a level of patience and understanding that most non-to-moderate gamers don't have. You consider yourself lucky to get one play in of a heavy game... it goes not like you hoped, you get another... same thing. The prospects of playing this with the frequency you'd like to slips away.

If you aren't getting it elsewhere in this thread, I will offer you empathy and sympathy.

MK is a great game, but it requires a lot of patience to work through. The basic rules are easy to me, but I could see how someone could easily get frustrated by lack of quick movement.

I'm in the middle of a solo game and I'm about to reduce all movement costs by one; I'll let you all know how it goes.
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PaulGrogan wrote:
johnnyspys wrote:
Played again today...second to last round, same problem, night surrounded by woods, dessert and other things that are 3 or 5 and couldn't move without discarding cards for single move points for the last three hands...and didn't have mana to boost move cards. So the last three turns the player sat and did nothing.


I for one am really confused. How can a player be stuck for 3 complete turns with no movement cards? Yes, it does happen that a player has no move cards. It also happens that they may have a move card but not the right mana to power it.

In your example, you say they did have a move card, but not the mana. So, ok, you play that card and then a couple sideways to allow you to move. Yes, it isnt far, but then he draws more card. Remember you can voluntarily discard cards at the end of your turn before refreshing your hand. If a player sits there and looks at his cards and says "Oh no, I have no move cards." And then proceeds not to discard any, draw 2 new cards and moan again, then they should have discarded more cards.

Seriously Tom, I have played this lots, and others have played this lots more, some people 50-60 times. The issue is not really as big as you are making it out, which means either some rules are being misunderstood or people aren't working out yet how to play the game. With experience comes knowing when to discard cards to draw more.


I think it is bad luck coupled with experience...I really think this is one of those games where you really need to know all the cards, possible combinations, and tiles to maximize your moves, which someone discounts anyone but the hardcore players like me. I like the game but after four hours of play when a player is in an area surrounded by 5 cost movement areas it is frustrating. The person needed to go and attack a city, so they had one move card for move 2, discarded five cards which meant at night moving two spots...the redraw he didn't have any move cards so to get into the dessert at night he had to discard three cards for three movement with three cards left to attack ruins or take on a dragon.

I think this game is far more a mid-max puzzle game than a Dungeon crawl and I think if you are not mid maxing you are in trouble. I suspect many of the players that are not having problems are playing two or three cards a turn, mining mana, slowly building up cards, etc. I also think if you make a mistake and loose a battle it can be brutal and while I don't mind it I am not sure how easy it is to come back from it. When I played this last game the person kept playing all five or six cards so every round was no more than four turns (at least for the first day and night rounds.

Again, I was hoping for a crutch for new players... these type of players...I mean I don't want to tell them how to play, and it gets tense if I am telling them they are playing the game wrong. I appreciate the help Paul, but I feel like Antiquity I am not going to get this out with many of my current crew and that is a bummer.

Even with me concentrating on building up, none of the cool moving action cards were available in the early part of the game, and even I had a hard time with moving at the end of the game because the city tiles are protected by a lot of expensive movement areas. I almost feel like it would be better the first few turns to mine, kill the easy stuff around the area. I just was looking for some hints and I must admit the rulebook might be getting in the way of the game a bit. I really liked the walkthrough...it was brilliant for the first play. However, I think you should write a third book that combines all the rules into a different layout based on rule themes (for example everything to do with movement is in a movement section). An index and repeating rules if necessary would probably help things out a bit. This would have saved at least an hour of play time which would have helped the down time.

Anyway, I plan on giving this one more go around and see what happens. Again I appreciate the positive support Paul.
 
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Tom
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McTreble wrote:
Tom, I feel your pain. I suspect your game group might be like mine. You're the big gamer, keep up with news and BGG stuff, games get filtered through you to others. You know the game cn be cool, but it requires a level of patience and understanding that most non-to-moderate gamers don't have. You consider yourself lucky to get one play in of a heavy game... it goes not like you hoped, you get another... same thing. The prospects of playing this with the frequency you'd like to slips away.

If you aren't getting it elsewhere in this thread, I will offer you empathy and sympathy.

MK is a great game, but it requires a lot of patience to work through. The basic rules are easy to me, but I could see how someone could easily get frustrated by lack of quick movement.

I'm in the middle of a solo game and I'm about to reduce all movement costs by one; I'll let you all know how it goes.


Hey I appreciate the support!. I am frustrated because when I used to live there were a ton of gamers that would love this game. I have some heavy game friends but they work so much that it is hard to get a game like this in due to schedules. Plus I am finding where I live table top miniatures and RPGS are getting more play for me, which I am rolling with even though I would prefer boardgames. Ah well, I own a ton of games, what is one more on my shelf right?
 
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Poliorcetes wrote:
I agree, seems like you might be playing it wrong as its rare that I go more than 1 hand without some movement card or a card that can be powered up for movement.

Some helpfull teaching tips.
Until you build up some followers, you really can only easily win the Orc battles. I recommend making a beeline towards the nearest town. Buy a unit with movement bonuses and then loot the town for an extra card. Now you are set up for a 6 card hand with a follower, a great time to go fight something.

I suspect new people may be trying to do too many things at once. Until you get some more powerful cards or special ablities, you realistically will either get a combat hand, an influence hand, a movement hand, or a mix. So you might need to counsel people to roughly plan these 3 actions during a full Day/Night. Don't wander into deep woods if you already have used up your big movement cards.
It might be helpfull to create a chart for new people listing how many move/combat/influnce cards there are roughly, so they can have some idea of what is coming.
I could see people being frustrated when they don't have a feel for how many of each type they have in a hand and thus overspend or toss a powerfull card for 1 action point.

Poliorcetes


I like this advice...I think we are trying to be too nice because of the worry for the higher cost of goods once we get a negative reputation. The chart is a good idea, but I do have one question which I think I know the answer but why would recruits cost more (because of negative influence) when you control the fortress (not sure if that is the right term) or if you beat the wizard tower? Am I correct if you were at a fortress you conquered and have a -1 reputation and wanted to buy a 7 follower it would be 8 influence?
 
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