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Subject: Rankings: Twilight Imperium 3 Defeated rss

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Eric Pietrocupo
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Hurray!, Eclipse have surpassed Twilight Imperium in every game category and it's now very close to be in the top 20 games.

I am just very curious to see how far will this game go and for how long would it stay there.
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Russell Bryan
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Were they competing?
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Simon Kamber
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Neurosion wrote:
Were they competing?

Didn't you hear? Only one space game can be good at a time.
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Jason Tesser
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Dulkal wrote:
Neurosion wrote:
Were they competing?

Didn't you hear? Only one space game can be good at a time.


But both Race for the Galaxy and Battlestar are higher :-p

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It's only a matter of time. Battlestar is not a space game... Race for the Galaxy is not close enough to Eclipse... Twilight Imperium really seems to be the go-to for the empire building on a map sort of game previously, so this is an entry right up alongside that to a lot of people.
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Eric Pietrocupo
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Quote:
Were they competing?


Let just say that TI and Eclipse are very similar games and many people wanted Eclipse because their did not liked Twilight Imperium. So the fact that Eclipse has just exceeded TI3 is very joyful.

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Scott Lewis
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larienna wrote:
Quote:
Were they competing?


Let just say that TI and Eclipse are very similar games and many people wanted Eclipse because their did not liked Twilight Imperium. So the fact that Eclipse has just exceeded TI3 is very joyful.


They're not really all that similar in terms of anything but basic theme. They are very different games with very different mechanics.

Eclipse has some things that I like that TI3 doesn't have. TI3 has some things that I like that Eclipse doesn't have. I'm with larienna: I never really thought of them as competing, any more than TI3 was competing with, say, Agricola or Twilight Struggle.
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Eric Pietrocupo
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Quick list of similarities between Ti and eclipse:

Both games has a modular hex map.
Both games has planet invasion and control
Both games allows to build fleet
Both games has an action system
Both games has races with unique abilities
Both games has exploration markers
Both games has technologies to research
Both games has resources management to buy stuff

They are 2 different games, but they are still the same type of game.

It's much more similar than comparing Eclipse with Race for the galaxy for example.
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Scott Lewis
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Fair enough, if you only look at superficial similarities (though I disagree with the planetary invasion bit; Eclipse has no ground combat at all).

But every single one of those (even the modular board) has very different mechanics. The games have very different feels, very different strategies, very different player dynamics.

My point was that saying they compete with each other is trying to make it sound like they are both so similar that you wouldn't want both. I couldn't disagree more - they both have a place in my collection, and both will be played. I may not have the dozens of games under my belt that some have, but enough to know that Eclipse doesn't replace TI3 for me.

It's laudable that Eclipse has done so well so fast. And it is a good game. Apparently many users feel that way, too. But I still don't get why surpassing TI3 means anything more than any other high ranked game it has surpassed. TI3 is a game that has many who love it, and many who hate it. Eight years from now, the same might be said of Eclipse, who knows.
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Derek Thompson
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Eclipse's rating may very well change once detractors rate more and/or the game is more widely available. Pretty impressive run to the top but I won't know how much is hype or the real deal UNTIL I GET MY GRUBBY HANDS ON IT TOMORROW!
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Volker S.
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Tretiak wrote:
As proof that I don't see competition between them: I bought both Eclipse and Shards of The Throne in Essen.


Me too - but as I stated elsewhere:

Everytime I play Eclipse I want it to be as narrative and diplomatic as TI3.

Each time I play TI3, I want it to be as elegant with that high amount of net play time es Eclipse.
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Scott Lewis
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larienna wrote:
Quick list of similarities between Ti and eclipse:

Both games has a modular hex map.
Both games has planet invasion and control
Both games allows to build fleet
Both games has an action system
Both games has races with unique abilities
Both games has exploration markers
Both games has technologies to research
Both games has resources management to buy stuff

Not to belabor the point (but I am anyway), but the same set of comparisons could also be made with Galactic Emperor (except maybe the struck out items above), which has even LESS in common with Eclipse than even TI3 has.

Heck, many of the above points could also be made in comparison with Imperium, too. Or Runewars, if you ignore theme and genericize a few terms like "fleet" and "planet" to "forces" and "areas". Yet despite the shared "features", these games are all drastically different
 
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Cool. Also heard today that Finnegan's Wake just beat To the Lighthouse in the literature rankings, and since they are both stylist, formally-difficult Modernist novels, everyone's been tossing all of their Woolf in the trash.
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Volker S.
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Both games have dice.
Both games come in a box.
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Carlos Alves
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I never played the TI3, but i know the game ver well.
I received a copy of Eclipse and played it with my friends that had played TI3 to play my copy of Eclipse and they enjoyed the game. They loved the game and they still like TI3,

Both games have some similarities but they differ on gameplays which are:

TI3 is a long game that can take up to 24 hours if there more players.
Eclipse is a short game with a duration of 9 rounds that can be completed up to 3h50m with up to 6 players.

So that's why many gamers will like more of Eclipse than TI3 because they don't to consume a huge amount of time.

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Volker S.
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BGFreakDag2PT wrote:
They loved the game and they still like TI3,


The same with my group - but we all now feel the itch on how to merge both.

After only me has read the rules of Eclipse, it took me ~10 minutes to prepare the game and explain the rules to four newbies. Afterwards we almost did not need to look into those rules again and almost no rules questions came up. This was the point that really defeated TI3 for us.

On the other hand I do not know many games that are so richly filled with artwork, flavour text etc. as TI3 is, not many games where the roleplaying comes therefore so naturally to the players. And especially not many games where the sheer amount and design of components hits every true player. This is still the point why TI3 will never be totally defeated for us.

We would love to play something TI3-ish with Eclipse rules. Does not have to be balanced and shouln't be finished within some hours. We want an epic and narrative game without TI3's rules bureaucracy...
 
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Jeremy Laverty
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You cult of the new can celebrate when you get 5000 more votes (To match the 7100+ votes that TI3 has).
 
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Jim Richardson

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Dorkfest wrote:
You cult of the new can celebrate when you get 5000 more votes (To match the 7100+ votes that TI3 has).


That will probably happen before your latest game of TI3 is finished. (ZING!)
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Jeremy Laverty
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Haha! That was a good one.
 
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