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Subject: Assult and op? Please Help! rss

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Mole mina
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My husband and I have come to a point in the game where we will not agree, it would now turn to you and hope to get a quick answer as possible, the game is on the kitchen table waiting to be able to continue playing.

What we do not agree on is if and when I would shoot with my tank is in the op when he goes into a box and make an assault on a group of more than two blocks away, might add that I do not see box, which he comes.

I would argue that when he goes into the box, I see and shoot.
He claims it is not because he is then in the melee, maybe I could shoot if my men are forced to retreat.

Please help us!
 
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Ray
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Molemina wrote:
My husband and I have come to a point in the game where we will not agree, it would now turn to you and hope to get a quick answer as possible, the game is on the kitchen table waiting to be able to continue playing.

What we do not agree on is if and when I would shoot with my tank is in the op when he goes into a box and make an assault on a group of more than two blocks away, might add that I do not see box, which he comes.

I would argue that when he goes into the box, I see and shoot.
He claims it is not because he is then in the melee, maybe I could shoot if my men are forced to retreat.

Please help us!


I'm a little confused by your question, but I think I know what you are asking. Please confirm if I have the situation correct.

I'm hoping when you say "box" you mean hex and not pillbox

Your Situation:
Your husband has selected a unit that will perform an Assault action, and he plans on assaulting a unit that does not have a tank in the hex (units cannot assault a hex containing a Heavy Vehicle, pg.33). However, you have a tank in a completely different hex, but that tank cannot see your husband's assaulting unit until he moves that unit adjacent to one of your units he plans on assaulting.

If that were the situation, then yes, you may Op Fire with your tank and attack your husband's unit performing the Assault action when the unit moves into the hex and before the actual Assault is resolved. "A unit in Op Fire mode may attack the active enemy unit immediately after the active unit moves into a hex within range and LOS of the Op Fire unit."(pg.32)

Being adjacent to a friendly unit does not stop Op Fire. Also, units do not block LOS, so you can fire through a friendly unit during Op Fire.

It may seen a bit odd that friendly units do not block LOS, but the reason why units (friendly or enemy) do not block line of sight or impede firing is because for ground scale, hexes are so much bigger than what the unit(s) can physically occupy. Also, TOI is less complicated in that way as it is supposed to be a simple game rather than a complex one.

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Mole mina
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Hi,

Thank you.

When i wrote box yes i meant hex.
I was still arguing with my husband when i wrote so I used google translater...

You are refering to the rule I was thinking of thou my husband do not agree, thou Im hopeful we might be abel to end the game tonight.

To help you understand us better follow the link, is a pic of how the boardgame looks in that corner.

http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k606/Molemina/Bild2012-0...

none of the three squads are fatigued, we haven´t resolved that, since we have not agreed about the assault.
 
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Denmark
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I do see one small problem with your game.

The US and German squad are sharing a hex which is against the rules. Even tho the US squad is assaulting your squad, it does not move into "your" hex until the assault is over and only then if you lost and are forced to retreat. Assaults take place from adjacent hexes. Also either neither the advance or retreat from the assault can cause an OP-FIRE according to the rules (Page. 34)

So whether you can OP-FIRE on him really depends on where he came from.
If he started adjacent to your unit, he would not have to move in order to assault. Also if he came from behind the large top building, he could move into the left hex of the building and be out of the tanks LoS.

Otherwise I cannot see how he could avoid OP-FIRE.

Hope this helps

 
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Chris Hillery
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Based on the picture, I think I have to disagree with Ray's answer. I believe Tjazz has it right. Let me see if I have this right:

You are playing the Germans, and have a unit in a building. Your husband is playing the Americans, and declares an assault on the building hex. His units are located on the far side of the building from your Op Fire tank.

In that case, no, your tank may not fire at the assaulting units. The reason is that the tank will not have Line of Sight until your husband's squads enter the building hex itself - and when you perform an assault, you do not move into the target hex until AFTER the assault has been resolved (and only if the assault is successful).

I am assuming that all of your husband's squads started the turn in the building adjacent to the target hex (the one that two squads are standing in in your picture). If so, then sorry, you can't Op Fire. If they started further down the map, or maybe they got out of that truck, then the tank could have Op Fired at them as they moved to assault.

Also, I think Tjazz has a typo in his answer:
Quote:
Also either the advance or retreat from the assault can cause an OP-FIRE according to the rules (Page. 34)

Page 34 of the rules says that advance or retreat from an assault does NOT give the opportunity for Op Fire.
 
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Ray
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Molemina wrote:
Hi,

Thank you.

When i wrote box yes i meant hex.
I was still arguing with my husband when i wrote so I used google translater...

You are refering to the rule I was thinking of thou my husband do not agree, thou Im hopeful we might be abel to end the game tonight.

To help you understand us better follow the link, is a pic of how the boardgame looks in that corner.

http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k606/Molemina/Bild2012-0...

none of the three squads are fatigued, we haven´t resolved that, since we have not agreed about the assault.


Ahhh... a picture is a thousand words. Okay, I can see what is going on, and even which scenario - "Breakout Through St. Lo" - is being played.

Right away I have to say I too see a critical error with the game. I can see that you both have units in the same hex on map board 30B in that one hex building with the Victory Objective Marker. This would be against the rules. Assaults happen from adjacent hexes, not from within the same hex. Please see the example of an "Assault Attack" on page 33. Note that in the example that squad A moves one hex north to be adjacent to hex B, then the American player assaults hex B. The blue arrow noting the advance after the assault (squad A won). The green arrow notes the move to assault. Yellow lines showing who is participating. Remember, advancing after winning an assault is optional.

However, Kenneth is incorrect in saying, "Also either the advance or retreat from the assault can cause an OP-FIRE according to the rules (Page. 34)" Again, this is incorrect. Retreats and advances are not considered normal movement and not subject to Op Fire.

From the rule book, page 34:

"A retreat is not considered normal movement, and the defender
is not subject to opportunity fire when retreating."

"The advance is not considered normal movement, and the
advancing units are not subject to opportunity fire when
advancing."

Best way to resolve the incorrect situation would be to move the American squad out of the German hex and place it back into the adjacent hex from which the American squad moved it from. If it was the building hex with the other two American squads, then no, you Stug-III cannot Op Fire. If the American squad started in the the same hex where the truck is, then no, your Stug-III cannot Op Fire because he was already adjacent when he declared the Assault Action. Op Fire is only triggered by "the active enemy unit immediately after the active unit moves into a hex within range and LOS of the Op Fire unit." (pg.32)

So depending on where the squad taking the Assault Action started from, you may or may not be able to use Op Fire.

Hope this helps.
 
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Ray
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Ceej wrote:
Based on the picture, I think I have to disagree with Ray's answer. I believe Tjazz has it right. Let me see if I have this right:


Chris, you must be staying up late. I guess you and I were writing the responses at about the same time, just that you pressed "Submit" a bit before I did. Serves me right for pausing to go get some breakfast.

Anyway, my original response was before seeing the picture. See newer response above.
 
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Mole mina
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Thanks for your help guys!

My husband will be pleased. ;-)


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Denmark
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Ceej wrote:
Also, I think Tjazz has a typo in his answer:
Quote:
Also either the advance or retreat from the assault can cause an OP-FIRE according to the rules (Page. 34)

Page 34 of the rules says that advance or retreat from an assault does NOT give the opportunity for Op Fire.


Ceej is right. I meant to write neither not either :o)
 
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