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Guards! Guards! A Discworld Boardgame» Forums » Rules

Subject: The Final Spell Run? rss

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steve webb
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Firstly can i say as a HUGE discworld and mainly City Watch fan, i thoroughly enjoyed this game! Its excellent! It was bought for me as an Xmas gift and it was the best present i got by a MILE! I have one question though which im hoping can be answered. This issue was raised when me and my girlfriend played through for the 2st time.

Basically the final spell run seems redundant almost in regards to the opposing players. I understand that the final spell run should be acted out to the same rules as per the usual spell runs. I understand that the premise on the final run is to slow the player in question down by removing some of their volunteers as they need 1 volunteer to finish the final spell. If the same rules apply then the person on the final run can take 4 volunteers with them and then add 2 more if necessary but by the end of the game we found ourselves with an abundance of volunteers ( i can see how this would be different if there were 4 players as opposed to 2 so obviously there would be fewer volunteer cards available).

So i suppose is what im asking is for some general clarifcation on the final spell run?

Any help offered would be greatly considered, many thanks in advance!
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Leonard Boyd
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Hi Steve,

Many apologies for the delay in getting back to you.

Firstly; thank you so much for your comments, we are glad you have enjoyed Guards! Guards! so much.

With regards to the final spell, because a player must return their playing piece to their original start gate, they usually spend more than one turn inside any given quadrant. This means that a player with a saboteur planted in a quadrant can attempt to sabotage their opponents volunteers more than once as that opponent moves through the section of the board (once per turn that the opponents piece begins, or ends their move in that quadrant). This means you can have many more chances to get up to mischief.

Also there are a few Scroll cards that can be used to reduce your opponents chances of rolling successfully when attempting the final challenge.

And . . . . If all else fails, a sneakily summoned dragon (or two) can seriously mess up the other guys plans!!

I hope this helps. Enjoy your next game.

Regards
Leonard Boyd.


PS. If you are not camera shy, why not take a few snapshots of your next game and post them on our face book page. www.facebook.com/guardsguards.
You could win a free limited edition Guards Guards T-shirt.


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Peter Ball
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We just had a game and a similar question came up. I started my final spell run with only one volunteer who defected but by the time I got to my start square I had gain others. The rules say the player must be accompianied but does not say if this is at all time. If so what happens if you lose all your volunteers midway through the final run?

Also stacking I had read that stacking was not allowed except at Hospital but is stacking allowed on spell hexes, else someone who is doing badly could sit on a spell hex to stop someone completing is final run.
 
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Leonard Boyd
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Hi Peter

With reference to the final spell run;
You must have at least one Volunteer in your hand when you begin your final spell run, and when your reach your start gate to attempt the final wizard's challenge. If you loose all your volunteers on the way back with your final spell you must (on your next turn) move to a volunteer tile and try to recruit a new volunteer. You may not continue your spell run until you have done so.

With regards to your second point, I have to be honest and say that is a situation that never came up in any of our play tests.
(this surprises me as I thought my co-designer had tried every sneaky, underhanded trick in the book to stop me from winning).

However I can see how this would be very frustrating if an opponent (especially in a 2 player game) decided to bring the game to a deadlock by blocking a spell hex in that way).

We are currently working on am updated rule set which we hope to publish along with a second print run of Guards! Guards! some time early in 2012.
I will ensure this is covered in that version. (we will publish a free download version of the new rule set for owners of the first edition)

In the mean time I think you should create your own house rule, banning this and if anyone argues, show them this post and say. . . .

look - THE DESIGNER SAYS SO!!!

Hope this helps, and a serious big thanks for buying and playing our game.

regards
Leonard Boyd.
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steve webb
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Hi Leonard,

Many thanks for getting back to me about the final spell run its also worked out well as now someone else has asked a useful question on this thread! You have cleared up up all the points in question nicely! I look forward to reading through the revised rules soon. How are you planning on organising the correspondance to the original owners?

Kind regards and again Many thanks

Steve W
 
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Tommi Elonen
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I'm adding some new questions to this thread, since it best reflects my biggest concern.

I played my first 2 games yesterday, and there was some confusion about the rules. I have the 2012 revised edition.

Could you clarify the duration of a spell run?
Does it only last untill your volunteers have reached the gate, and after that the spell run ends and you you begin the wizards challence phase? This is what the manual says, as in the page 6 it lists 4 phases for the spell run, ending with "arriving to the gate".
There was one magic that gave -2 to all rolls for the duration of the spell run. So this magic only applies to spell run, but won't affect the wizards challenge?
On the off-chance (it would be more logical if it lasted longer, but rules are rules) that the spell run lasts longer than the time to reach the gate, what if wizards challense fails at first round? Will the spell run continue until finished, or will a new spell run start at next turn?

2:nd question:
The manual would seem to say, that the spell run only applies to the time when you send your runners to return the spell. (Note the topic on page 6 "MAKING A SPELL RUN". It clearly states that players send volunteers back to gate during th spell run.) Also, on page 8, the topic "RETURNING THE FINAL SPELL" is not connected to the spell run topic, nor does it mention the spell run anywhere. So according to the manual, the return of the last spell is not a spell run.
However, I have just read on the forums that returning the final spell IS a spell run. Can you clarify and point me to an original rule that clearly states this?

3:rd small question:
On 2:nd game I played, one of the players got dealt constable Visit at the beginning of the game. There was some debate whether the -1 charisma should be applied to the player, since other negative aspects like the pox are not applied at the start, but after some time we decided that the player in question started the game with -1 charisma. Is this correct?

4:th question:
On some characters it says "luggage moves to next bridge". At first we played it like monopoly "go straight to jail card without passing through the start", so the luggage transported immediatelly to the next gate, without walking there. However, at our 2:nd game, we started to wonder about this. Should the luggate teleport to the gate, or should the luggage move to the gate along the tracs?

5:th small question:
There was one instance, where player was forced to only move half of what he could normally move. (I don't remember if this was fate or scroll.) If player can move 7 spaces, can this player now move 3 or 4 squares?
The player also had a scroll that allowed him to move 12 steps for one turn. Does this spell cancel out the first one, or is he restricted to 6 (6/2*2=6) squares? The spelling on the scroll would seem to indicate he can always move 12 steps when scroll is played, that the scroll would override other limitations. How do different movement modifications add up in this special case?

- a player from Finland
 
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Leonard Boyd
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Hi Elmo.

Firstly thanks for buying the game, we hope you enjoyed your first few plays.

Now lets see if I can clear up those questions for you.

The duration of a spell run. - A spell run lasts from when a player moves onto a spell tile until the end of the wizards challenge.
So in the case of the scroll you mentioned the -2 to all rolls lasts from when cast until the Wizard’s Challenge has been passed and the Spell is returned to the Unseen University.
There is a difference between the two parts of the Spell Run in that in the first half of the run (while the runners are imagined to be moving from the spell location to the start gate, they may be targeted by Saboteurs or by Magic. Once they reach the start gate they are safe from Saboteurs but may still be targeted or affected by Magic.



Returning the final spell is classed as a Spell Run; meaning any volunteers held by a player as they move back with the final spell may be targeted by Saboteurs (until they reach the Start gate). This is stated in a note on Saboteurs on page 11. It is also mentioned on the FAQs page with reference to what happens if a player steps off the Start Gate during the Final Spell Run.

Concerning the two free volunteers a player receives at the beginning of the game. Any changes to attributes, +’s or –‘s, should be marked on the players guild cards before play begins. Pox, Fate Cards and Luggage Movement do not take effect.

When the “luggage moves to the next bridge” it should move along the luggage track as normal. So the player recruiting the volunteer card gets to steer it along the track to the bridge.

The any minuses to movement should be taken of the players basic movement of 6 spaces (or 4 if infected by pox).
Any additional movement modifiers should then be added to the result. ie. In the case you mention the player has his standard movement of 6 which has been increased by a +1 from an Item (I assume it was the Street Map which gave this bonus) the ‘Half normal movement' effect is applied reducing his normal movement to 3, but the Street Map still adds +1 so that would bring his movement for that turn up to 4.

You are correct about the Scroll which allows a movement of 12 spaces in that is successfully cast the player may move 12 spaces for that turn irrespective of any other minuses or bonuses which are in play at the time.

I hope this clears up those points for you.

Regards
Leonard Boyd.
 
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Michael Annenkov
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Hello! I have a few questions about the Final Spell Run.

The rules state that during a normal spell run no player may plant or move their saboteurs. But the Final Spell Run is different, because it must be done in person, and moreover that person can recruit Volunteers, buy items and scrolls etc.
So, the question is: can other players plant new saboteurs during someone's Final Spell Run? And another one: can the player that attempts his Final Spell Run plant saboteurs too?
 
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Chuck Hurd
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PandaBall wrote:
Also stacking I had read that stacking was not allowed except at Hospital but is stacking allowed on spell hexes, else someone who is doing badly could sit on a spell hex to stop someone completing is final run.

Jan. 9, 2012 -
halfshaft2010 wrote:
With regards to your second point, I have to be honest and say that is a situation that never came up in any of our play tests.(this surprises me as I thought my co-designer had tried every sneaky, underhanded trick in the book to stop me from winning).

However I can see how this would be very frustrating if an opponent (especially in a 2 player game) decided to bring the game to a deadlock by blocking a spell hex in that way).

We are currently working on am updated rule set which we hope to publish along with a second print run of Guards! Guards! some time early in 2012.
I will ensure this is covered in that version. (we will publish a free download version of the new rule set for owners of the first edition)

I have the 2012 edition and I don't see where this issue was addressed. Am I missing it somewhere in the new rulebook?

 
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