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Subject: Three way yields a Santorum surge. rss

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Morgan Dontanville
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Dick has slid between the cracks with an explosive presence. Meanwhile Gingrich is holding the bag and Perry is bringing up the rear. Bachmann keeps praying for something to come her way fails to get a rise out of anyone.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/poll-paul-romney-santorum...
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William Boykin
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Santorum is the last gasp before everyone in the GOP realizes that Huntsman is the best choice.



Ok, I'm dreaming. But I would so dearly, dearly love to see a Huntsman/Karger ticket in 2012.

Seriously, though-
None of this means anything until we get some actual election numbers.

Darilian
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None of this means anything, period.

All you can infer from polls is that that particular subsection of the populace says their preference is that particular candidate, but it doesn't mean anyone should infer that the rest of the populace feels the same way, and it doesn't preclude those that participated in the polls from voting differently in their respective caucuses and primaries, or even in the general election.

Until individuals vote for the candidate that best represents them and not the candidate that stands the best chance of usurping the disliked incumbent, the election system is going to remain flawed.

Don't even get me started on the Electoral College and the two-party system. This "Us vs. Them" mentality is really fucking silly. It seems whichever party one is affiliated with, the other is automatically "The Dark Side". This country deserves the "Leaders" it elects.
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Darilian wrote:
Ok, I'm dreaming. But I would so dearly, dearly love to see a Huntsman/Karger ticket in 2012.


"Jon Huntsman: Because you like some of Obama's policies, but wish he was kinda whiter."
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Slate called him " the latest candidate who is not Mitt Romney. Voters have been on a constant rummage through the bin, looking for an alternative. First they moved toward Bachmann, then Perry, Cain, Gingrich, and Paul. Santorum is the last one left."

I think Romney will win the Nomination but the fact that most GOPers want someone other than him doesn't bode well for his prospects.
 
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http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/updates/3354
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The far right is looking for someone who is very conservative but still has a chance to win in November. They have tried Gingrich, Perry, Cain and now it's Santorum. For some Romney is just too middle of the road. Mind you the Democrats don't want Romney to get the nomination because Obama is pretty much a sitting duck at this point and if Romney is the nominee Obama is one and done.
 
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mrbeankc wrote:
The far right is looking for someone who is very conservative but still has a chance to win in November. They have tried Gingrich, Perry, Cain and now it's Santorum. For some Romney is just too middle of the road. Mind you the Democrats don't want Romney to get the nomination because Obama is pretty much a sitting duck at this point and if Romney is the nominee Obama is one and done.


I think Paul would be the biggest problem for Obama; he can draw more democrats and independents over to his side than any other GOP candidate, and presumably the Obama-hating GOP would vote Paul even if they weren't thrilled. (Won't happen, mind you. But still.)
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Osirus wrote:
mrbeankc wrote:
The far right is looking for someone who is very conservative but still has a chance to win in November. They have tried Gingrich, Perry, Cain and now it's Santorum. For some Romney is just too middle of the road. Mind you the Democrats don't want Romney to get the nomination because Obama is pretty much a sitting duck at this point and if Romney is the nominee Obama is one and done.


I think Paul would be the biggest problem for Obama; he can draw more democrats and independents over to his side than any other GOP candidate, and presumably the Obama-hating GOP would vote Paul even if they weren't thrilled. (Won't happen, mind you. But still.)


I don't think Paul would survive a significant assault. How will the financial community support wanting the gold standard back? How will the classic values voter support someone that has views on immigration that are popular among liberals?

Now, I wish Huntsman won, and I'd even wish him to become president. Then maybe the next democrat that becomes president will actually follow through with what he talked about, instead of becoming eaten by the establishment within 10 minutes of his presidency.
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mightygodking wrote:
Darilian wrote:
Ok, I'm dreaming. But I would so dearly, dearly love to see a Huntsman/Karger ticket in 2012.


"Jon Huntsman: Because you like some of Obama's policies, but wish he was kinda whiter."


shake

[sarcasm] Yeah because Dar, being our resident uneducated reactionary racist hardliner, could not possibly have done any reading or formed any genuine opinions about the actual record and policies Jon Huntsman as a candidate to base a preference on. [/sarcasm]

shake
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Meerkat wrote:

[sarcasm] Yeah because Dar, being our resident uneducated reactionary racist hardliner, could not possibly have done any reading or formed any genuine opinions about the actual record and policies Jon Huntsman as a candidate to base a preference on. [/sarcasm]


I find it rather amusing that a very obvious parody of a campaign slogan should be taken as a slur against Darilian. Let's get this settled easily, shall we? Christopher, was the intent of your campaign slogan to out Darilian as a racist? If so, would you like to do so in a less passive fashion? If not, would you like to explain why pointing out Huntsman's possibly only real appeal to some large section of his constituency should be taken as an indication that it's the only possible appeal to the entirety of his constituency?
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hibikir wrote:

Now, I wish Huntsman won, and I'd even wish him to become president. Then maybe the next democrat that becomes president will actually follow through with what he talked about, instead of becoming eaten by the establishment within 10 minutes of his presidency.


Well, when Democrats run as Republicans, nothing ever works out the way they had planned.
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@rupertmurdoch on Twitter wrote:
Good to see santorum surging in Iowa.

The lower-case S did it for me.
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MisterCranky wrote:
Well, when Democrats run as Republicans, nothing ever works out the way they had planned.


When people call Jon Huntsman a Democrat (or RINO, or Dem-wannabe, or whatever) all they do is make clear how not-left the Democratic party has become. Huntsman is solidly pro-life, has campaigned firmly on a regressive tax restructuring that would explode the deficit, has also campaigned on severe regulatory reduction and market involvement in education, has a generally hawkish foreign policy outlook, and during the campaign has reversed himself and started campaigning against doing anything about global warming or emissions reductions. His remaining liberal bona fides are his proposed immigration policy and... well, that's mostly it.

People who call him a proxy Democrat are wrong: he is firmly center-right, and well to the right of any Democratic member of Congress with the possible exception of Joe Manchin. Calling him a proxy Democrat just underscores what is required to be considered a bonafide Republican these days: sheer fucking lunacy.
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mightygodking wrote:
MisterCranky wrote:
Well, when Democrats run as Republicans, nothing ever works out the way they had planned.


When people call Jon Huntsman a Democrat (or RINO, or Dem-wannabe, or whatever) all they do is make clear how not-left the Democratic party has become. Huntsman is solidly pro-life, has campaigned firmly on a regressive tax restructuring that would explode the deficit, has also campaigned on severe regulatory reduction and market involvement in education, has a generally hawkish foreign policy outlook, and during the campaign has reversed himself and started campaigning against doing anything about global warming or emissions reductions. His remaining liberal bona fides are his proposed immigration policy and... well, that's mostly it.

People who call him a proxy Democrat are wrong: he is firmly center-right, and well to the right of any Democratic member of Congress with the possible exception of Joe Manchin. Calling him a proxy Democrat just underscores what is required to be considered a bonafide Republican these days: sheer fucking lunacy.


It's terrifying when believing in science is the litmus test for one of our major political parties.
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What is wrong with pointing out how non-Left the Democrats have become? So the fuck what? Any individual who perceives solid political differences between the parties just points out what fucking lunatics individuals are.

It doesn't matter what your stance is on any given issue--you just downplay how you feel about it, and kiss up to some boilerplate that you think plays to your party's current base. Think the unions are in power this year? Offer tax refunds on pipe fitting tools. Feel like Evangelicals have the power? Promise to behead every Muslim. It's child's play, and none of it matters a bit. Especially if you sit up there in Canada, laughing your ass off, waiting for the nuclear cloud to waft your way.
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SpaceGhost wrote:
It's terrifying when believing in science is the litmus test for one of our major political parties.


I thought the litmus test was not believing in science.

How many of the Republican candidates (and withdrawn candidates) when asked how old the Earth is would give a straight (no attempts to waffle and obfuscate) and accurate (let's allow them to say anything roughly accurate like "billions of years") answer? No, I don't know the answer.
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Les Marshall
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[q="hskrfn822"]None of this means anything, period.

q]

Absent tampering with non paper trail voting machines, polling has accumulated a fairly impressive accuracy record. Sure Iowa doesn't speak for the nation but, it is obviously a test bed for how well a candidate message is being received. For now, it means Bachman is out and Perry likely to follow absent some future surprise.

Beyond polling, while your criticisms are valid, it will take concerted citizen action to change anything. Start finding local congresspeople willing to take on the corrosive influence of big money donations and maybe your grievances will be addressed.
 
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mightygodking wrote:
Darilian wrote:
Ok, I'm dreaming. But I would so dearly, dearly love to see a Huntsman/Karger ticket in 2012.


"Jon Huntsman: Because you like some of Obama's policies, but wish he was kinda whiter."


FWIW-
While I thought that MGK was being a bit crass, I never thought that his post was directed at me personally.

I think I know Chris well enough to know that he is the type of person that if he was going to call me a racist, he would do so directly, rather than obliquely.

Darilian
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Darilian wrote:
While I thought that MGK was being a bit crass, I never thought that his post was directed at me personally.

I think I know Chris well enough to know that he is the type of person that if he was going to call me a racist, he would do so directly, rather than obliquely.


Oh, I was just making fun of Huntsmania generally. Rooting for Jon Huntsman is like rooting for American cheese or spackle. There's just no reason to do it.
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mightygodking wrote:
Darilian wrote:
While I thought that MGK was being a bit crass, I never thought that his post was directed at me personally.

I think I know Chris well enough to know that he is the type of person that if he was going to call me a racist, he would do so directly, rather than obliquely.


Oh, I was just making fun of Huntsmania generally. Rooting for Jon Huntsman is like rooting for American cheese or spackle. There's just no reason to do it.


You say that as a Canadian Socialist, generally rooting for the Left-ish party.

For me, there is a VERY big difference between Huntsman as a candidate for the GOP, and someone like Santorum, Perry, or Bachmann.

I want to see the 'Party for Grownups' actually NOMINATE someone responsible for once, rather than following after the latest ideological 'flavor of the month'.

And Karger? I'd like to see that just because I think he has the right attitude towards the deficit- make the US taxpayer realize the actual cost for each program, in terms of what it costs them in their tax bill. Explain funding in terms of the tax cost necessary to fund a program fully. Move away from the 'Starve the Beast' strategy- all that did was encourage Americans into thinking that they could have lower taxes AND all of the spending that they wanted.

Darilian
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Darilian wrote:
You say that as a Canadian Socialist, generally rooting for the Left-ish party.


People keep saying I'm a socialist, which isn't really accurate. I'm a social democrat. There is a huge difference - like the fact that most of us who aren't rabid conservatives are social democrats of varying stripes, for a start. But I digress.

Quote:
For me, there is a VERY big difference between Huntsman as a candidate for the GOP, and someone like Santorum, Perry, or Bachmann.


But why?

Seriously: it doesn't matter if the party nominates Huntsman or not. Huntsman's candidacy would not change the anti-science, anti-reason, anti-government GOP base. President Huntsman would still have to lead a party composed primarily of halfwits and mendicants, and to believe otherwise is to assign magical redeeming powers to the Presidency that it just doesn't have.

Quote:
And Karger? I'd like to see that just because I think he has the right attitude towards the deficit- make the US taxpayer realize the actual cost for each program, in terms of what it costs them in their tax bill. Explain funding in terms of the tax cost necessary to fund a program fully. Move away from the 'Starve the Beast' strategy- all that did was encourage Americans into thinking that they could have lower taxes AND all of the spending that they wanted.


It is worth pointing out that Obama has already begun implementing exactly this.
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Point 1, Socialism-

It was a mild payback Jibe, Chris.


Point 3, On the debt-

Obama isn't quite doing this. More to the point, it doesn't matter, from the perspective that I'm interested in, which is to change the conversation from a direction that is unproductive to something that is.

But Point 2 is the key-

IT DOES MATTER- to me.

Because I want to see the GOP to actually live up to its rhetoric and actually BE the party of Small Government, helping entrepeneurs and small businesses, and promote equality of opportunity. And that won't happen by deciding to vote for Obama.

To be honest, I'm FAR less interested at this point in terms of whose butt will be in the Oval Office. Its likely to be Obama at this point, unless something starts to change in amongst potential GOP voters.

And its that- this cultural cloud of miasma, disappointment, unfocused anger and general dismay that is what really interests and concerns me. I'd like to see a GOP candidate that channelled all of that rage in a more positive and constructive direction. I think that Huntsman is the type of candidate who could do that.

For me, its about changing the culture of the GOP, one step at a time, into a direction that I want to go.

Darilian
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Darilian wrote:
And its that- this cultural cloud of miasma, disappointment, unfocused anger and general dismay that is what really interests and concerns me. I'd like to see a GOP candidate that channelled all of that rage in a more positive and constructive direction. I think that Huntsman is the type of candidate who could do that.


I get that you think that. My point is that you have zero evidence to think that and it comes across as wish-fulfillment.
 
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