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Subject: Bang for your Buck rss

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Jim Jackson

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This may have been discussed before on this forum, however; as far as entertainment value goes, boardgames cannot be beat. I know games are expensive, but the cost per hour far outdistances any other form of family entertainment (unless the family just sits around the TV for hours on end). For example: A family of four goes to see a movie at the theatre, Tickets $7.50, if you get snacks, add another $20.00. Total cost $50.00. If your family goes out before or after the movie, add another $50.00. Approximately, four hours of family entertainment equals $25.00 per hour. Then, the movie is over (during which everyone watches without any quality family discussion). If you choose great family games the entertainment never ends and the more you play, the cost decreases. The interaction is constant, and good family memories will be generated, plus you can order pizza and have it delivered. Don't get me wrong TV and Movies are great, but; Bang for your Buck = Boardgames (just as long as you get ones that you will play and won't just sit on your shelf). Ask yourself, what was the last great movie your family saw and still talk about how much fun you had! And how many movies do you watch more than once. So, if it seems that boardgames are expensive just consider that it is all relevant to the ultimate entertainment factor. I just used movies as an example to alternative entertainment, heck, I'd hate to compare it to taking a family of four to a major (or minor) sporting event or music concert! Bottom line, do not be so quick to complain about boardgames costing $50.00 to $100.00, in the long run they may just turn out to be Priceless!
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Paul DeStefano
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What if the game sucks?

Time does not equal value.
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Erik Dahlman
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I always look at entertainment as compared to a movie since most people seem to think it is an acceptable price for two hours of their time (or they wouldn't go). So basically, 2 hours worth of entertainment is worth $15.

Yet, and I find this odd, people will complain about iPhone/iPad games that are 99 cents or a few dollars as not worth it because they only played for six hours or so. Similarly, I find that if I can play a board game for an hour or two more than a few times, it's completely paid for itself.

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Jim Jackson

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Same risk as if the Movie or Sporting event sucks.
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Imp Rovius
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Geosphere wrote:
What if the game sucks?

Time does not equal value.


Well, movies can suck, too. I think it's a valid comparison.
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Ralph T
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The movie comparison is somewhat inaccurate, because nearly everything except live entertainment is cheaper per hour than the movie. But what three hour boardgame experience was as memorable to your experience watching Avatar for the first time in 3d? The experience of a good movie is just apples and oranges with the experience of a good game, and boardgames tend to be a lower level of intensity than movies. You might cry watching the scene Gandalf dies in Lord of the Rings, but not in Lord of the Rings: The Confrontation.
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Eric Johnson
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I think the ultimate value of a good movie is the social aspect of talking about it with friends later... over a good boardgame.

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YaVerOt YaVerOt
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I understand and appreciate your sentiment, but I gotta call foul on your unfair comparison.

You compare rarely used special entertainment like going to the movies, theater, zoo, concert, or museum; to a multi-use item.
Compare it to DVDs, cable, netflix, books, art you've put in your house.

A good game is still a bargain, especially when you add in the social interaction value; but it won't be so overwhelmingly lopsided.
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One Armed Bandit
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yaverot wrote:
You compare rarely used special entertainment like going to the movies,


Excuse me? Going to the movies is "rare"?
Box office figures beg to disagree with you

Paramount made almost 2 BILLION dollars with 15 movie releases in 2011.
At 10 bucks a ticket, that's 200 million tickets.
The top 5 studios pulled in almost 7.5 billion. That's 750 million tickets - 2.5 for every person in the US.
http://boxofficemojo.com/studio/?view=company&view2=yearly&y...

There are a lot of people who see movies rarely (like myself). And there are a lot of people who see a movie every week (like my partner).

As for multi-use... DVDs are a tricksy thing. There are hundreds of DVDs in my house.

I can count on my fingers the number of them that have been watched more than once. You can't make comparisons like that.

Movies are a standard measure of entertainment-value, because it is ubiquitous and standardized.
People will pay $10 to be entertained for 90-120 minutes. The market has determined that this is a fair price, and people happily pay it (to the tune of $10 billion a year)

However, if you want a better comparison, how about video games?

A new video game is $50-60, and averages about 10 hours of playtime. That's comparable to board games in both price and playtime.
 
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Alex Bourne
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I think it's a good comparison and I've made the same comparison before. Movies may be to specific, if you compare the per hour cost of a board game compared to the per hour use of other entertainment expenses, board games come out being a fantastic bang for the buck.

If my wife and I go to the movies we spend upwards of $40. If I buy a board game for that cost I can get a good game which will keep us entertained for dozens of plays.
 
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Kathrin
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Geosphere wrote:
What if the game sucks?

Time does not equal value.


Well, then I can sell it to get at least some of my money back (in some cases even most or all of it). Doesn't work with tickets for a movie that sucks.
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Alexis Carlough
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palmerkun wrote:
yaverot wrote:
You compare rarely used special entertainment like going to the movies,


Excuse me? Going to the movies is "rare"?
Box office figures beg to disagree with you

Paramount made almost 2 BILLION dollars with 15 movie releases in 2011.
At 10 bucks a ticket, that's 200 million tickets.
The top 5 studios pulled in almost 7.5 billion. That's 750 million tickets - 2.5 for every person in the US.
http://boxofficemojo.com/studio/?view=company&view2=yearly&y...

There are a lot of people who see movies rarely (like myself). And there are a lot of people who see a movie every week (like my partner).

As for multi-use... DVDs are a tricksy thing. There are hundreds of DVDs in my house.

I can count on my fingers the number of them that have been watched more than once. You can't make comparisons like that.

Movies are a standard measure of entertainment-value, because it is ubiquitous and standardized.
People will pay $10 to be entertained for 90-120 minutes. The market has determined that this is a fair price, and people happily pay it (to the tune of $10 billion a year)

However, if you want a better comparison, how about video games?

A new video game is $50-60, and averages about 10 hours of playtime. That's comparable to board games in both price and playtime.


Actually people have been going to movies less and less over the years, with 2011 showing the lowest movie ticket sales in 16 years (http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/breaking/chi-movie-ti... http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-500184_162-57350854/movie-ticket... I think 'the market' is deciding that F### regal, it's not worth it to pay 9.50 for a ticket and $7 for popcorn that tastes like cardboard. At my local theater (which plays brand new movies, but only one at a time since it has one theater) I can get 2 tickets, a huge popcorn & soda and redvines for $20. That's a price I am willing to pay occasionally.

And an entertainment medium that people use 2.5 times a year is fairly 'rare' for the average household (not 'rare' as in nobody's doing it but 'rare' as in its a special occasion). How often do you play boardgames, videogames, watch TV?

Also, I get way more than 10 hours out of each board game that we actually like... so if you only ever get 10 hours out of a board game, you have way too many board games to play any frequently. (Or just not enough free time, and that sucks srry)

ETA:
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Dan
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I once made a post about games and their replay-ability ... where I would prefer to put as many plays as possible to get the best $ per play (like what Ray mentioned).

cry Sadly I don't follow this any more as there are so many great board games out there waiting to be played.

I will do my best and knock every board game I have down to less than $1 per play... hey! that's a good New Years resolution meeple
 
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YaVerOt YaVerOt
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palmerkun wrote:
The top 5 studios pulled in almost 7.5 billion. That's 750 million tickets - 2.5 for every person in the US.


So, on average, every 20 weeks we splurge $10 on 90 minutes of entertainment.

Quote:
There are a lot of people who see movies rarely (like myself). And there are a lot of people who see a movie every week (like my partner).


Sure, $5 on a Thursday afternoon, about every 3 years, netting a practically private showing. But taking the above numbers, on average once every twenty weeks.

Quote:
As for multi-use... DVDs are a tricksy thing. There are hundreds of DVDs in my house.

I can count on my fingers the number of them that have been watched more than once.


So you have a small collection, but refuse to watch it; relatively speaking that sounds like most people's board game collection.

Practically speaking, I can tell you which DVDs I haven't watched, which I've watched once, and those that I've watched enough that I don't know anymore. (Two is an impossible number.) Your DVDs sound more like my book collection, Herbert, Asimov and Harry Potter multiple times - everything else once (if yet).

Quote:
You can't make comparisons like that.


If you're agreeing with me that the OP is making an unfair comparison, fine.
However, I think you're saying my more fair comparison can't be made. So to make the comparison fair again, instead of DVDs vs boardgames (both physically onsite and ready quickly), we compare going to the movies with visiting a club where they charge you each time you play a game. And to further make things fair, since the theater has the nice big screen and good sound system, the club has a complete deluxe version of the game.

Quote:
However, if you want a better comparison, how about video games?

A new video game is $50-60, and averages about 10 hours of playtime. That's comparable to board games in both price and playtime.


While I knew the price had increased such, I had no idea playtime had dropped significantly from 30 hours. But I agree it is a more fair comparison:
1. Yours after purchase for multiple use
2. Readily available without leaving home
3. Active vs passive entertainment

Much less of an oranges to Comadore64s comparison (first compare both to apples), than movie theater vs board game.

I'm not saying boardgames aren't a great deal, but using the $/minute of a movie in a theater as a standard makes almost everything else look cheap.
 
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Ralph T
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If were valuing cost per hour of entertainment, books, MMORPGs, and TV would be far and away the best values.
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ralpher wrote:
If were valuing cost per hour of entertainment, books, MMORPGs, and TV would be far and away the best values.


There is also getting sports-equipment for example for running or archery, baking, knitting etc
 
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Pater Absurdus
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I agree that Board Gaming is a great way to spend one's time, money, and hobbying energy.

I do not think it is a cheap one though. It is cheaper then some things. For my own personal entertainment video games and video streaming are definitely cheaper.

I buy video games used and they depreciate a ton by the time I pick them up and when I am done with them I turn around and sell them. I frequently will play a video game for 20-50 hours and only spend $5-$10 on the game when it's all said and done. At $1 for 4-5 hours of entertainment board games (at least in my experience) can't compare to that quantity per buck. Now that is not the point though. Board gaming is more fun and more social and (at least IMO) a higher quality experience dollar for dollar...
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One Armed Bandit
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yaverot wrote:
palmerkun wrote:
However, if you want a better comparison, how about video games?

A new video game is $50-60, and averages about 10 hours of playtime. That's comparable to board games in both price and playtime.


While I knew the price had increased such, I had no idea playtime had dropped significantly from 30 hours. But I agree it is a more fair comparison:
1. Yours after purchase for multiple use
2. Readily available without leaving home
3. Active vs passive entertainment


Actual playtime for video games can vary wildly from player to player, game to game.

The 10 hour figure is an average for single-player "story mode" games. 8-12 hours is typical for FPS games like Call of Duty and Halo (the most popular these days) and action-adventure (Batman Arkham Asylum, Super Mario Galaxy, etc).
RPGs (Final Fantasy, Skyrim, Mass Effect) will skew much higher. High action games (Street Fighter, Shmups) will be much shorter.

Two things can significantly extend playtime for a game.
First is side-quests and optional tasks. Bonus objectives you can do because you want to, but aren't part of the main story progression. Some people have to do them all, some can't be bothered.

Secondly is online multiplayer. Halo 3 is over 4 years old now, and is still the #16 game for number of players online. Personally, I've gotten HUNDREDS of hours out of Halo 3. I have friends who have topped 1000 hours on Team Fortress 2. For competitive sorts who like the multiplayer, there's no effective way to measure how many hours they'll get from a game.

That being said, the 10 hour average works... the vast majority of players never actually complete the games they have.
http://kotaku.com/5832450/nine-out-of-10-will-not-finish-the...

In the end though, video games can frequently be a better value because unlike board games, you don't need another player.
 
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ralpher wrote:
The movie comparison is somewhat inaccurate, because nearly everything except live entertainment is cheaper per hour than the movie. But what three hour boardgame experience was as memorable to your experience watching Avatar for the first time in 3d? The experience of a good movie is just apples and oranges with the experience of a good game, and boardgames tend to be a lower level of intensity than movies. You might cry watching the scene Gandalf dies in Lord of the Rings, but not in Lord of the Rings: The Confrontation.


i would say that the first time i played galaxy trucker, or hamsterrolle was more memorable than the first time i saw a lot of films (i havnt seen avatar) at the cinema. and that includes 3d films etc etc.

if you dont like the movie comparison then take the cost of football/soccer tickets here in the uk.. on jan 22nd manchester united play arsenal.. the CHEAPEST ticket is £200 per person. a family of 4 arsenal fans is looking at spending well over £1000 to go and see 90 mins of entertainment.. and yet i bet nearly every seat in the place is sold. i would mention how many i thought would think 99p was too much for an iphone app, but i dont think the majority of man-u supporters could work a smartphone devil
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palmerkun wrote:
The 10 hour figure is an average for single-player "story mode" games. 8-12 hours is typical for FPS games like Call of Duty and Halo (the most popular these days) and action-adventure (Batman Arkham Asylum, Super Mario Galaxy, etc).
RPGs (Final Fantasy, Skyrim, Mass Effect) will skew much higher.

Quote:
High action games (Street Fighter, Shmups) will be


30 hours, the first week, easily, or it wouldn't get bought. 30 hours is also easy for a puzzle game in the first month.

Quote:
That being said, the 10 hour average works... the vast majority of players never actually complete the games they have.
http://kotaku.com/5832450/nine-out-of-10-will-not-finish-the...


I still think it is a 20 hour average, with the assumption that the player gets pulled away by the "new shiny"; as opposed to the "they're actually making a new game this decade" that fits me. A slight exaggeration, if I got the right devices I'm certain I'd find all sorts of turn-based games being released.

Now if you want to say the average price of a new game is $10 (to account for all the iPhone/iPad stuff) I'd give you the mere 10 hours easy.

Either way, we agree that board and video games are a better $/(time unit) than movies, and easier to compare.
 
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Kevin J
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My friends don't have to learn rules to go see a movie.

I also agree with ralpher above who says that books would make board games look expensive by comparison, but you're not going to convince anyone around here to start reading because of it.
 
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Kirk Thomas
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I think it's fair to say that board games compete for the same $$ that movies or sports events do, but I don't think the value comparison holds up. Going to see a first-run movie in a modern theater, or going to see major league sports, is a premium event, based on timeliness and exclusivity. It costs me an arm and a leg to go see a live NFL game, but I can watch the same game literally for free. I can see the same movie on a very nice TV for next to nothing, but I have to wait. If you're going to include the premium version of an event up as a comparison, you have to also hold up the economy version.

For $30 or less a month, you can have a fast internet connection and a Netflix streaming membership. On a pure "value" basis, nothing would beat this combination for me, especially since I can play dozens of great boardgames online.
 
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